It is a touchy subject. Truth be told, a healthy man who is 6'5'' is going to weigh quite a bit more than a healthy man who is 5'6''.

Are either of them "overweight"? No...but the taller man certainly weighs more.

So should he "pay" more?

Someone who frequently works out and builds muscle, should he/she pay more?

I don't know, but these airlines are privately owned and could start charging for overweight passengers.

I know they are talking about "obese" passengers but it is only a matter of time before an overweight guy gets charged more for his ticket and a muscle bound hulk (of around the same weight) gets a cheaper ticket...kind of discriminating if it is only "obese" people and not by total body weight. (Whether they are healthy or not.)

LOL - Gundy a slippery slope argument is a logical fallacy.

There is zero proof that it's 'only a matter of time'.

Stick to the facts Nostradamus.

How do you propose this would work then? I have seen a kid who was HUGE but he only weighed 230 pounds. He was 5'2''. Now I can guarantee the was another 230 lb person on the flight...

Here is what they should do. I work for an airline and there are some seats on the airplane that have arm rest that not only do not move but actually separate you from the other seat (no fat sneaking under the armrest) Put those in all the seats. Now if you don't fit, you cannot ride. Walk your fat ass off the plane and go lose some weight or buy a first class seat.

Remember fat people have to pay more money than others do all the time so why should air travel be any different. More food, bigger clothes, more health problems, etc.

When did air travel become a right. This is not a right, its a privelege you pay for. If you can't afford it, you don't fly. If you can't fit in a seat, you don't fly. It is not everyone's problem to compensate for peoples gluttony and irresponsible actions.

Lastly, this and old people are probably the largest safety hazard on an airplane. Have you ever see the size of the emergency exits over the wings. Those holes are not very big. Fat people will not fit out. And as far as old people go. 45 pounds is a lot more that some old people think. Next time you get on a plane and the 80 year old woman sits in the exit row, remember you are putting your life in her hands in an emergency. Think about that one for a bit.

On the other, many would argue that it should be the responsibility of airlines to adjust their standard seat size

This certainly won't work. It's been tried.

If an airline cuts the number of seats by, say, 20%, so that each seat has more space, then they have to charge each passenger 25% more for the ticket to cover the costs of the flight.

Now, suppose you're on Expedia looking for a roundtrip from Chicago to LA. There are two flights, one costing $300, and the other costing $375 (but advertising "more elbow room!").

Most people aren't going to pay $75 more. They'll cram into the smaller seats, complain about it, and save money in the end.

The market simply doesn't support roomier (pricier) seating in coach that would fit obese people. Therefore, airlines won't offer them.

Whether you're tall, muscular, or just plain fat, it sucks if you don't fit into a "normal" seat, but you can't expect to take up somebody else's space that they paid their money for, so you'll have to pay extra for another seat.

Highflying, I worked for a large carrier for 10 years. If you work for an airline, then you should know that an 80 year old woman would NOT be permitted to sit in an emergency exit row seat. Passengers assigned those seats are carefully screened by airline personnel. They MUST be fit enough to be able to not only open the door, but assist other passengers out of the exit in case of emergency. All passengers requesting or occupying these seats are told this prior to boarding. If not, the seats are reassigned.

I see your higher fares for fat people, and raise you higher fares for fliers with CHILDREN.

I can deal with fat people, but when you are on a x hour flight, some screaming and kicking monkey is more than most people can handle.

I think what people fail to understand also is that weight makes a huge difference in safety when it comes to flying. If a person weighs as much as two average sized people, needs to take up two seats, than they should have to pay for that, otherwise the airlines are loosing money as well. That seat cannot be replaced. There is nothing wrong with people taking care of themselves either. I think that the only people who rationalize using two seats and paying for one are probably themselves obese. 1+1=2 people, not 1+1=1.Think of it this way also, with how obese America is getting, planes are going to start needing bigger seats, which means less passengers each plane can carry, which means HIGHER fares. How many of us already complain about traveling being to expensive?

If airlines charge me more for my oxygen to fly. Then they can charge more for pigs to fly. If you need more room because you are a giant. Then you have to pay more. We just need a reasonable standard.

Silly argument, if it dosen't fit you must pay more! I'd like to see meter-wide seats myselfso I could be more comfortable, it won't happen they airline industry has decided everyone gets so much room. take it or leave it.

I hate being searched, scanned and bothered, with stupid questions. Then being charged out the azz for a bag. So I quit flying I'll just keep the money for myself. They charge too much to be allowed to put us through all the greif they do.

Since airplanes are weight restricted, airlines should charge by the pound.

Fat people take more than their share in one way or another, through aggression and imposition. The reasons for this fact are many. These underlying reason (especially in childhood) are at times not the direct fault of the fat individual. But getting fat or losing weight is a linear process. Whatever one's psychological or physical problems may be, if they eat less and do some physical work, they will LOSE weight. By doing the opposite they will gain excessive weight and therefore burden their families and society alike with their fatness and their lack of health. Not to mention their inability to pull their own weight in more ways than one.

As a Big... but not Obese man... I always attempt to purchase a Business class seat to be polite, allowing for the comfort of others as well as myself. However, on most domestic flights there are between 8 and 12 first/Business class seats... and they go fast. I read remarks like those made by "Highflying" and am reminded why some people end up in a hospital with their Jaw broken and some end up in jail with a battery charge. Nevertheless... While it seems some have an issue with larger or more precisely, fat people... I take issue with a bratty ass kid screaming in my face or behind my seat for 2 1/2 hours. What is to happen with them? Do we get to toss them in a plastic sound proof bubble that you have to pay for? What about the man or woman who sits down next to you who is wearing enough cologne/perfume to gag a maggot? What about the guy or girl who sits next to you who coughs incessantly? What about the person who has to get out and use the restroom 14 times on a 1 hour flight? What about that same person who has taught their kid the same trick? Bottom line.... When are we as a society of human beings going to be a bit less concerned about our perceived need of personal space? Seems pretty bad when we cannot learn to discipline ourselves mentally so that for 2 or 3 hours... we can tolerate just about anything. Everyone has been so pampered and gotten away with insisting upon what they want for so long, we are weak minded and ill-prepared people.

Yes... If you are overweight and cause a discomfort to the person next to you, you should make and effort to fly in 1st class. Or, fly with another person who does not mind allowing you a bit of their space so as to not cause the poor weak minded soul next to you to have a melt down. It is ALWAYS a good idea for larger men and women to take the Isle seat. DO NOT TAKE THE EXIT ROW... the seats are made like a Steel tub (so if the door flies off you will not go with it) and will not allow enough space for you to sit and be any sort of comfortable. In the isle seat one can lean outward a bit (except while those who have to use the rest room 14 times are walking back and forth) and if your traveling companion sits in the middle it will only leave a single seat on the window. Single seats have a good chance to be moved to another seat should there be room on the plane. If that happens you partner is a happier guy/girl for the effort. ALWAYS TRY TO BOARD EARLY... It gives the flight attendant time to recognize if there will be open seats to make you or anyone you are with more comfortable. Now... All of these things work for overweight people... But... They hold true if you are sick and hacking all over... if you have a kid that is the poster child for Ritalin use, or... if you KNOW you have to pee every 15 minutes... try to get an isle seat...PLEASE... getting in and out for YOU sucks.

Its easy to get mad at the big people... But... Before taking their moral and mental inventory... Better make certain that YOU OWN is not found lacking. All you do when you treat an overweight person like @!$%#... is reinforce some of what they may be struggling with. Be careful... you may just run into a Big guy who is not afraid or to embarrassed to give YOU a very different opinion concerning yourself then you have heard before. Trust me when I say this... you are not as wonderful as you THINK you are...

No matter what... try to be considerate of others. Until they prove that they are not worth the effort... then do everything you can to crush their weak spirit and fragile little mind.

Naaa... Just kidding... Be nice! Maybe it will be reciprocated.

Gundy 75

Did you see the f'ing picture at the headline of the article?

This is the type of grotesque individual we are talking about here... Don't be splitting hair with unrelated comments. The 6'5 individual has nothing to do with his height, a overly fat person (through their own choice and doing) is stealing room, resources, food, sewage space, energy, water, medical services, general rights, air and much more from the rest of us. STOP wasting our time please. Stick to the subject as indicated in the CoH.

Shift Lock - stupid people use up more oxygen than they are entitled to .......

Here's an idea;

pay by the pound, but your seat width is adjusted accordingly. Skinny people need less seat width, so they should not have more width unless they are willing to pay for it.

Same goes for Height! Tall people get more leg room, short people don't.

See, simple!!!

Old Fart

Sarcastic People waste the oxygen altogether. Sarcasm is the bastard cousin of anger. Get help.

Like I said, short and tall people have an immutable condition. Fat people do not...

Our deployment flight was on a DC-10 (I didn't even know any were still in service). At 6'2" and 210 lbs. I barely fit and in fact had to get up several times to be sure I wouldn't get a blood clot (due to the way I was crammed into the seat of this particular flying cattle car). As an eight+ year frequent flier (from the mid '90's to the mid '00s) I can assure you that newer planes offer far better seating than some of the old Pieces of $h*t (DC-9's and 10's along with various older crop dusters as I like to call the "commuter" planes) that used to serve as flying chicken coops. If someone can't fit in a single seat because they are obese then the airline should be able to charge more if it prevents that seat from being sold on a full flight. If the flight isn't full then said charge shouldn't apply or should be refunded (if it was already charged).

Fred From the Back Woods...(anyone remember "Deliverance"?)

For the first time ever, I agree with you. Even though my 5'9' frame at 170 lbs could neutralize your Army ass in 10 seconds or less. Just kidding bro... I do agree a 100% with you though. Semper Fi... and go easy on the profanity man.

It seems some respondents are missing the mark.

It is not so much weight as width that creates problems in the airline seat and for those unlucky passengers stuck next to Jack or Jill Broadbutt.

"others suggested that the charge should be calculated on the weight of the passenger plus their luggage."

Totally Agree!

BTW - I wonder if that fat tub of lard in the picture knows they've been photographed and appeared on this article? I would love to see their triple chin face! Pathetic!

Anon Y mous - Your post made me laugh. A couple of years back my husband, my 7 yr old son and I went on vacation with my brother, his wife and their 2 kids, the youngest, a 2 1/2 yr old boy. Well, my nephew screamed almost the entire way down - and the entire way back. About a 3 hr. trip each way. And I don't think he was in any pain or anything. He just didn't want to stay in his seat. It was a total nightmare, and I'm pretty sure that most of the passengers were ready to murder my whole family by the end of the flight. Made me very glad we had never traveled by air with our son as a baby. (I would NEVER let my kid kick the seat in front of him etc., but then my son was never a screamer either....) To top it all off, my 7 yr old niece threw up the whole way home too.

Good times, good times.

At 5'4" and 140lbs, I was depressed for a week after we flew on United and I noticed there was less room in my seat than when I had flown a few weeks earlier on Frontier.

I swear to you, the seats get smaller and smaller. ( I hope)

Anon Y Mous

I see your higher fares for fat people, and raise you higher fares for fliers with CHILDREN.

I can deal with fat people, but when you are on a x hour flight, some screaming and kicking monkey is more than most people can handle.

Same. I've never had to listen to a fat person scream constantly. I've had to listen to kids, drunks, the pathologically talkative/rude/etc.

You know what? I wish I could just get stuffed into cargo these days. I have no trouble fitting into the seats or anything like that, but I have nothing but trouble having to smell and listen to a bunch of rotten apples everywhere.

I'd rather just fly in a freaking coffin down in the cargo hold. Dark, quiet, lots of leg room; yes, flying as if I were a corpse is now a billion times more preferential than flying with the living.

Karen and solidox:

Karen: I hope that wasn't you, LOL.

Seriously though, I was on a flight to Europe in the Cattle Car section and the MOMENT I just started to doze off, some kid would have a tantrum.

Solidox: You might be onto something. Your own personal flight transportation Pod. Call it "FLightPod".

to Anon Y Mous and Derek V:

Overweight people can help the fact that they are fat. Children can't help the fact they are children. I understand getting upset when an older child is acting up--an 8 year-old was kicking my seat once. I was P!SSED! As for infants and young toddlers, they don't know the difference and you cannot expect them to.

Parents need to exercise some discretion when planning trips with children. It's foolish to plan a vacation to Paris with three toddlers, but you have to understand that sometimes there isn't a choice. International moves, funerals, international adoptions...these are all instances in which air travel is a must with children.

PS--I'm hoping we never have to move overseas with little ones. Sounds like a nightmare to me.

Sure, charge by the pound like you would for a rump roast or charge for two seats. By the way maybe they should sell a "family row" so the family can sit together.

Try living in an area where you have to fly into Orlando all the time! Families all over the place and most of these kids are never quiet. I would rather have a quiet large person sitting next to me than some of these kids.

I got on a flight once and the fat bastard next to me had put up the armrest and left me 2" to sit on. The flight attendant moved me to a @!$%#ty seat and the fat bastard got to enjoy my seat that I had spent time to make sure I get... how is that fair? It's not... There are "fat bastards" everywhere, not just in Austin Powers...

Betsy Ross American

It's funny everyone is posted there weight and stuff, It's alot better than hearing about Obama or Bush! Glad we can all relax a bit. I just wanna say Besty you sound pretty hot to me. I'm 150lb and 5'8, If ya ever fly to Chicago :)

IF YOU WANT TO CONSUME MORE YOU HAVE TO PAY MORE.

Go check out this other link on MSNBC.com. Air New Zealand gets it.

Shift Lock - or, should I take a que from you and call you something else, like S**t L**k?

Truly, your own sarcasm was a total waste of oxygen.

Don't dump on anyone else by doing that same thing you crow about them doing.

I think overweight passengers should pay only if the airline is full, ie people prone to take up two seats should specify their need upon booking thus two seats be reserved, if the plane is going to be full then they should be notified of extra payment. if that extra seat taken up by an obese passenger is not going to be used then why pay more? for the purpose of discrimination? some overweight people are misfortunate to be in that situation and its not directly their fault so why should they be looked on as a problem? besides I don't know any airline that weighs the passengers to calculate the total passenger weight related to weight/flight restrictions.

I think that the airlines need a "butt box" by the checkin counters, just like the box that you carry-on is supposed to fit in. If your butt don't fit---ticket!

Fat people are FAT, OBESE and disgusting. No apologies from me, ever.

There is NO fat gene. Obese people are a big problem in the USA and GB.

They cause a massive burden on our health system. along with countless burdens in other areas as well.

As a Doctor, I refuse to be politically correct. Call a spade a spade.

If you are obese: Please see a doctor, lose weight. Stop eating so much, get plenty of exercise, NOW.

Carl W: "Whether you're tall, muscular, or just plain fat, it sucks if you don't fit into a "normal" seat, but you can't expect to take up somebody else's space that they paid their money for, so you'll have to pay extra for another seat."

I think you hit the nail on the head with this argument. If you are so big that you are imposing on someone else's space, that they paid for, then that's where a problem arises and the imposer should be the one to pay up and purchase a second seat.

Dr. Mike: Glad you're not my doctor! I'd be suspicious if you're a doctor at all if you think that 100% of obesity cases are caused by overeating and being sedentary. Yes, that is the cause for a good number of obese people, but there ARE some people with MEDICAL conditions that cause them to hold onto weight more than average.

If they raised fares to make bigger seats i would be pissed. im not a big guy why should i pay for some fatty who cant fit in a regular seat. if they are going to get upset about paying for 2 seats i should get upset for not getting a discount for not taking up a full seat..

There doesnt need to be a fat tax all airlines need to do is state you are paying for the seat on the plane the ride is free . so.. if you take 2 seats you pay for those 2 seats. if the plane isnt full i can see not making them pay, but i think they should anyways

Personal aircraft are for people. If you are too big to fit into the seat buy 2 or fly via cargo plane

The size of a coach seat is now about the same width as a baby seat; if three average sized persons are seated side by side, we have to take turns breathing. as far as obese person's, if they want to fly, and cannot fit in the baby seat, then they must buy two.

What about giant breasts. Do they count?

"What about giant breasts. Do they count?"

Only when they're on my face!

I'd take a breast in my face over someones fat roll on my lap, Not to mention their heavy breathing that makes it hard to fall asleep. It's like trying to sleep when all you can hear is your dog on the floor licking it's nutts.

What about giant breasts. Do they count?

They'll have to be judged on an individual basis.

I'll handle that chore.

Unfortunatley, yes. They should be charged more. Airplanes should be going by weight, not just by the number of people. You add more weight, that means less people would be able to go on. Less people = less money.

Remember how that singer/actress died in the early 2000's? They overpacked the plane and it was too much weight for a plane that size.

I agree. I also feel sorry for an entire generation of people who, thanks to deregulation back in the day, will never have the experience of flying the way it used to be. I used to travel internationally regularly.

In those days, flying was a pleasure. Since ticket prices were regulated, the airlines differentiated themselves based on service, ease and comfort and in making flying a great experience for the traveler.

Some of my best experiences flying were with Air France and Varig. Their in-flight services were first class - real food, cooked on the plane, 5 course meals, served on real china, with real silverware, real linens, ice sculptures on the food carts, free cocktails and wine, amazing pastries, hot, lemon-scented finger napkins to freshen up with at the end of the meal. The seats were overstuffed, comfy and roomy. And that was coach class!!! I could go on, but you get the idea. It was definitely something to look forward to.

Nowadays, I avoid air travel like the plague. I've had better travel experiences than what you get today riding on inner city bus lines. It's a damn shame.

I agree. Also, since 66% of the USA is overweight, they will alienate a good number of people. Airlines this last holiday season tossed on extra "fees" just because. ...and just like too-big-to-fail banks and how people will move their money, so too will they move their ways of travel.

The only way I will fly is if 100% of all expenses are covered by someone else, and even then, I would still much rather drive.

Ah Ron, but there are many places in the world that you CAN'T drive too....like the Caribbean Islands, Hawaii, Old World (Europe/Asia/Africa, etc. I guess you are going to restrict your travels to the North American continent, and maybe parts of Central America and take days or weeks to get there. America especially, but other parts of the world also, are getting too fat and too lazy these days. Obesity is an epidemic, and those of us who are slim pay for that obesity in too many ways every day, not just on the airlines.....anywhere that we encounter sitting next to an obese person or even worse, sandwiched between two obese people. I think maybe all public transportation rates should maybe be based on price per pound x greatest diameter x height, hehe.

Having worked for an FBO operation, I know about the weight calculations pilots have to do for all of their flights. I'm still amazed that the larger commercial airlines don't have to fully record the weight of every passenger along with the baggage weight. Small commuter airlines and all charter flights have to calculate their total weight all the time.

Oops, new keyboard and the keys are more sensitive...drive to, not drive too, hehe.

Ron - they're not talking about people who are just a little overweight. They are talking about people who overflow into the seat next to them. I've been seated next to some fairly "large" people on planes, and didn't feel like I was sharing my seat with them. But I seriously wouldn't want to be seated next to the person in the picture. I could see that being a very trying experience.

Ron-12731967

I agree. Also, since 66% of the USA is overweight, they will alienate a good number of people. Airlines this last holiday season tossed on extra "fees" just because. ...and just like too-big-to-fail banks and how people will move their money, so too will they move their ways of travel.

The only way I will fly is if 100% of all expenses are covered by someone else, and even then, I would still much rather drive.

Ditto. I haven't paid for tickets in my entire adult life. You know what really sucks? After the airlines and the government team up to create the most unbearable experiences and put people off of flying as they have with us, the airlines will cry poverty and get more bailouts like they always have. *sigh*

anti-trust proponent

Ah Ron, but there are many places in the world that you CAN'T drive too....like the Caribbean Islands, Hawaii, Old World (Europe/Asia/Africa, etc. I guess you are going to restrict your travels to the North American continent, and maybe parts of Central America and take days or weeks to get there. America especially, but other parts of the world also, are getting too fat and too lazy these days. Obesity is an epidemic, and those of us who are slim pay for that obesity in too many ways every day, not just on the airlines.....anywhere that we encounter sitting next to an obese person or even worse, sandwiched between two obese people. I think maybe all public transportation rates should maybe be based on price per pound x greatest diameter x height, hehe.

Having worked for an FBO operation, I know about the weight calculations pilots have to do for all of their flights. I'm still amazed that the larger commercial airlines don't have to fully record the weight of every passenger along with the baggage weight. Small commuter airlines and all charter flights have to calculate their total weight all the time.

I hear they've got these amazing new things out for 2010. They're called boats.

You're slim and you pay for fat people blah blah you're fat and you pay for smokers, you're a smoker and you pay for slim people. "Slim" people don't pay any more than everybody-bloody-else does. Everybody pays eventually.

I certainly wouldn't put it past them, but the seats are already so small, especially as compared to seat size 20 years ago, if they make them any smaller, Twiggy won't be able to squeeze her rear into one.

Well, booming business for UPS, FedEx and USPS, because many people would just ship their stuff then. For that matter, I'd fly nude and save a few pounds that way too.

Personally, I would like to get a discount for carrying less luggage.

Sometimes I would like to take a bit more luggage than the "limit", and it would be much nicer to have a per-pound charge rather than the horrendous extra baggage fees they have now.

Ben Birdsey

Forget a "fat tax", every single person should pay by the weight that they are carrying, you plus your baggage.

Nah, not gonna work unless they give discounts to people like me. I fit the seats with no overflow, no struggling, no trapping people next to me. I'm also taller than the latest American averages for women, and I have a very dense, compacted body that weighs like a tank. I'd be unfairly overcharged despite the fact that I'm not actually causing a problem or inconvenience to anybody.

Weight = fuel = money.

The real problem is not with people but with luggage, since some prople struggle to meet the 80lb (or whatever it is now) limit for each of their 2 checked bags.

To be fair, you would have to have a charge for total weight, for each seat sold, and for the menu of services offered. That might roughly equal the system used before this recession.

If the per-chair fee was known, then it might be possible for someone with immense dimensions to pay for using 2 seats without doubling their airfare?

...it's called first class. :)

The problem with larger seats is that the airline will obviously charge more for premium seats (larger, more legroom, etc.). I doubt that many people would pay more than $20 for a larger seat, so I'm not sure that it's the best answer for everyone.

Wowlfr, Until you pay taxes on your SUV that are in line with its size and weight, rather than as a car, I think your comparison fails.

Wowlfr, I am going to put this as plainly as possible. If someone's fat backside is taking up more of MY seat then my own backside is, they need to buy another seat. It is NOT MY FAULT they are over weight.

My husband, our son and I all travel together. If all airlines ripped out the three seats together, one of us would have to sit away from the other two. Why should we be punished because someone else hasn't figured out Jenny Craig's number????

Finally, your point about the parking spaces is just stupid. I drive a dual cab, 4 wheel drive dodge ram. I park in the back of the parking lot where the spaces are larger and there is no issue fitting in the space. NEWS FLASH: Walking and taking the stairs are good excercise and can be amazing for loosing weight.

I am sick and tired of skinny people being punished because fat people won't stop whinning about how life is so unfair for them. Get over it, loose some weight and MOVE ON!!!!!

WOW!! Must be thin air up in those clouds so high 'n mighty. Did you ever think that some people have health issues beyond their control? I have sleep apnea, I'm a big guy, BUT my mother had it too, thin as a rail... Also, I have a slow thyroid, yup.. I take meds for it and exercise, but my metabolism is all f-ed up. I've lost weight, but it's not as easy for me as for other people. At least I can shed some pounds and lose some wight, but people like yo ucan't gain any intelligence.

By the way, it's not "loosing weight", it's "losing weight" ya LOser.

Seats arent that small. And most travel is not that long, that you cannot be a little uncomfortable just to get wherever you are going.

I am 6'1" and 230#, and I fit in a seat just fine. Sure it is not spacious, but I can fit. My 6'3" 260# brother also fits. They are talking about the super obese people here, not just large people.

Look at the picture of the person in the article, they are huge, and it is not all genetics that is responsible for that. If you eat yourself into that state, or if you body build so much that you cannot fit in a seat, you should have to pay for more for a second seat. Or maybe they have half a dozen jumbo seats, and charge 50% more for them.

My husband, our son and I all travel together. If all airlines ripped out the three seats together, one of us would have to sit away from the other two. Why should we be punished because someone else hasn't figured out Jenny Craig's number????

Punished? Wow, what an excessively dramatic, entitled attitude. The last time I had a flight, I specifically got an aisle seat assigned to me when I bought my ticket. I showed up on time, sat in the seat I paid for; several minutes late, a family of four who wanted to sit all together on a plane with 3 - aisle - 3 seating found itself with the wife in the center seat. They had the audacity to try to first convince me my seat was hers, as if I were completely blind and couldn't see the seat numbers at all. They had the same entitled attitude you have.

Makes me glad I upfront said "Nah, I paid for this seat. It's mine." and put my headphones on.

WOW!! Must be thin air up in those clouds so high 'n mighty. Did you ever think that some people have health issues beyond their control?

The way that someone else's health concerns affect my pocketbook basically only through insurance or healthcare spending. If it really is a medical expense then maybe the government should have a fund to subsidize that person using two seats?

Actually there will a fixed value for the cost of the seat and then there will be a variable cost rate per pound.

yeah, I realized that deficit in my pricing scheme. There would also have to be a separate charge for the menu of services that you are being offered.

Let's put this upfront, I am not obese. But I have to respond to you.

"Candies and anything FATTINING should be taxed"????? There's some level of fat in ALL food. Are you advocating a tax on groceries that everyone would pay? Or would you have to be weighed while in the check-out aisle to determine how much you will pay? Or maybe large people could just wear a symbol on their clothing a la nazi germany so that they would be charged more for food or candy or whatever it is that you think they shouldn't buy and eat.

As far as comparing your smoking habit to someone's eating habits are concerned. When another person is eating you are not forced to eat their food. When a person is smoking, you ARE forced to inhale their smoke.

The nicotine and carcinogens in your cigarette smoke are affecting your reasoning capabilities.

As far as comparing your smoking habit to someone's eating habits are concerned. When another person is eating you are not forced to eat their food. When a person is smoking, you ARE forced to inhale their smoke.

The nicotine and carcinogens in your cigarette smoke are affecting your reasoning capabilities.

Didn't you read ashleyaddams' post. Yes, she was FORCED to have somebody's lard-rolls invading her space. She didn't force anybody to breathe her smoke (unless somebody forced them into the smoking section).

Or maybe you want smokers to have to wear a symbol on their clothing a la nazi germany.

smokers are people too, and smoking actually helps keep a person thin so they don't take up somebody else's space on an airplane. I gained about 30 pounds after I quit smoking.

And yes, a junk food tax would be a very good idea. If hoho's and twinkies are more expensive and fruits & veggies become cheaper, it will help cut down on our obesity epidemic. Use the revenues to fund health care reform.

But who is going to determine what is junk food and what is normal food?

And you do not get it, riding next to the fat guy that eats a lot did not force her to eat his food and suffer health issues from being obese. If she was smoking, then it would affect everyone around her. Sure there are smoking sections, but for the most part they really do not work. Also, if she was a two pack a day smoker, and the person next to her in the smoking section only smokes a few cigarettes a day, then the smoker next to her would be forced to inhale a pack of cigarettes on the flight, thus being even more unhealthy than smoking just a few cigarettes.

smokers are people too, and smoking actually helps keep a person thin so they don't take up somebody else's space on an airplane. I gained about 30 pounds after I quit smoking.

If smoking is so helpful, why'd you quit?

Also, smokers are not a protected class :( Were it up to me, I'd love it if smokers were made to wear some colorful flair. Maybe a big armband that says "What? I don't think I stink." or "Cancer's not that big a deal to me."

Not sure where you live, but here in California we have a "Snack Tax" anything not needed to sustain, (within reason) has a higher tax, Soda/Candy/Popcorn/etc.. and it's not just for the overweight it's for everyone. These foods are considered an indulgence, like smoking/Drinking. And for the record overweight people aren't eating just these foods to become over weight Ashley..

As I've said before..

, I'm getting real tired of the negative attitude and behaviors a lot of people have adopted over the last few years. I'm real tired of the Hypocrisy of many, many people. (Especially here on the Vine)

One week there's a story about bullying and how it affects people; sometimes to the horrible degree that person being bullied commits suicide. I come into the vine to find all sorts of heated words about those horrible bullies, and they should be ashamed and punished for their actions... etc, etc... And here we have a question of two seats or one... And I sit here reading some really nasty and insensitive comments.

REGARDLESS of the size of someone, EVERYONE has the right to be comfortable. The overweight person, AND the person they're sitting next to. All you people that are being so harsh, do you think the majority of those over weight people aren't horribly embarrassed? Don't you think that they wish they weren't over flowing into your space? They didn’t build the planes for Gosh sakes. How down right humiliating to make them buy 2 seats. I think ALOT of you missed an important fact, it's not talking about the Morbidly Obese that you all seem to be referring to; they’re talking about obese people, which covers a broad spectrum of shapes and sizes. Adults age 20 years and over who are overweight or obese: 67%. And there are individuals that are not even slightly overweight or obese, but have a different body structure, the broad shouldered, body builders, they too can impede on a neighbor’s space, (and they’re not the evil “fatties” that you think deserve to be humiliated)** but just the same, what about them? If obese people have to buy two seats, are they going to be sure to measure other possible “offenders” if not, that’s prejudice, (and any other post, most of you would be up in arms with someone being prejudice) Everyone should be allowed a level of dignity in this situation. All parties in this story is a human being, and they should all be granted respect, and be treated humanely.

**On a separate note, everyone that is harping on the “fatties” and their choices, and how they are lazy, and pathetic, and how there’s no room in our society for them… Think about this my dear hypocrites… How many of us know someone, one way or another, that has struggled with an addiction or a disorder of some kind? Alcohol or drugs, being bulimic/anorexic, or even smoking. The source of all these addictions can be removed almost completely in most instances, (even then it’s still hard to stay on the wagon). Over eating is also an addiction. There is no one, not one person, that over eats so society can make fun of them. No one “decides” to be fat, because they want to be ridiculed for their entire lives, or “bullied” by the Perfect body police. There is always a reason. And it’s really not for us to decide if those reasons are “valid” or not. Most adults with any level of compassion or humanity wouldn’t talk down to or point fingers at other recovering addicts. But imagine how truly hard it would be for an alcoholic to recover if that same addict was required to drink a beer once a day. Or that crack smoker to take at least one hit a day, or a cigarette smoker only having one a day? It would be near impossible for them… The people who are food addicted have to truly live with their addiction in a way other addicts could not fathom. Not once a day but many times a day, they have to take into their bodies the very source of their addiction… Anyone who has ever recovered from some kind of addiction, if truly being honest with yourself you would agree with what I’m saying. It’s not as simple as we would like it to be. For all the people that on one thread preach about no bullying, or being Christian, or wants equality for all humans, or being good to other, you may want to rethink your post here… and you know who you are. I’ve seen lots of you on many other boards…and YOU should be embarassed with your inconsistencies. No freaking wonder the upcoming generation is so Disrespectful. Look how we, the adults, the example setters are treating one another... so sad, and horrible disgusting.

There are a lot of things in this post I take issue with, so I am going to address each one..

• You are 100% correct in that you have the right to be comfortable in the seat you pay for. So does the larger man.
• Please look at the links below. Obesity does not cause more deaths than smoking. In fact, 90% of lung cancer cases are caused by smoking, while 85% of Type 2 Diabetes cases are caused by obesity. I realize there are other death factors associated with both conditions, but these are the most common.
• When you smoke, you endanger the health of those around you. When an obese person eats unhealthy foods, no one else is endangered.
• "Smoking Section" is a joke. Smoke does not know how to stay in the smoking section.
• Overeating is an addiction, just as nicotine, alcohol, or heroin is. However, you don't need nicotine or alcohol to live. You still need food.
• Skinny people can be, and are, unhealthy, too. Weight is just ONE risk factor and symptom.
• So, if we tax fast food and candy, how about we tax hair dye? Baby bottles with BPA? Let's add a tax to potatoes, since they are starchy. Or radios that can play music really loud, since that can damage hearing. We cannot police healthy choices; we can only provide help and guidelines.
• Your comfort level IS just as important as anyone else's. However, smoking does not apply, since my right to breathe trumps your right to smoke.
• If you think everyone who is overweight/obese did it by choice, look up P.C.O.S., Hypothyroidism, steriod treatments, or any number of other conditions.
• It's spelled fattening, not fattining

By the way, I am overweight. I am not morbidly obese. My blood pressure is fine, I do not have diabetes, and my heart is in good shape. I do not encroach on the space of others. Should I be paying extra taxes?

http://colonnews.com/300000-deaths-caused-by-obesity.html

http://win.niddk.nih.gov/Publications/health_risks.htm#type2

http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/health_effects/effects_cig_smoking/index.htm

...look up P.C.O.S., Hypothyroidism, steriod treatments, or any number of other conditions.

Weight gain attributed to these can be regulated through diet and exercise. It may be more difficult, but it is possible to control it.

winblo- correct on all counts with the exception of steroid treatments. The steroids cause immunosuppression and are prescribed for a variety of treatments. While helpful the side effects are difficult and include the sort of weight gain which is not going to decrease until the steroids are discontinued. Who comes immediately to mind? Jerry Lewis at his most hideous and the late and lovely Mary Travers (of Peter, Paul and Mary). Vis a vis 'skinny people', this thread is only about the comfort and expected comfort of air travelers. If someone is, for WHATEVER REASON, so large as to encroach on their seat mate, then something must be done to make it equitable. IF one needs twice the seat size, they have two options: buy a first class seat, or buy two seats in coach. It is simply unfair to me to have the bulk oozing from another passenger into my lap.

200 people no matter how large the plane is?

Okay, let's think for a moment...

So, an Airbus a380, which could very comfortably fit 300 people (they're designed for as many as 555 in some configurations) should only be allowed to have 200 passengers?

And a Boeing 717, which can only fit about 110 passengers, should have 200 passengers crammed in?

200 people is a lot for some planes and way too low for other planes. Not all planes are the same size.

Actually the A380's seat configurations go from 450-853 seats. The latter being an all economy configuration. Austral Air has some on order with 840 seats, now that is packing them in.

Carl W

200 people no matter how large the plane is?

Okay, let's think for a moment...

So, an Airbus a380, which could very comfortably fit 300 people (they're designed for as many as 555 in some configurations) should only be allowed to have 200 passengers?

And a Boeing 717, which can only fit about 110 passengers, should have 200 passengers crammed in?

200 people is a lot for some planes and way too low for other planes. Not all planes are the same size.

Why not go for broke and remove the seats altogether and just make everybody stand, for that matter?

Don't talk about your mother that way!

Maybe we could make "flight coffins" and just put people in those. That would take up even mess room on the plane than people do now with seating. The airlines could stack us in really close then. Just give us some oxygen and water, hook up a hose for the bathroom.

They would if they could. You know then they could get rid of flight attendants 4/5 less paychecks per plane would be great for some Airline exec's bonus.

Just by the way you say, "im sure the poll consisted of all skinny people" makes me believe that you are probably very similar to the woman in the picture. It's people like you who believe that they shouldn't worry about everyone elses feelings when they are on a plane. I can guarantee you when I fly to Las Vegas this summer, if I get a lard next to me they are going to hear about it the whole time, because if they are going to pay the same amount as me to take up 50% more seat room then I'm going to let them know that people laugh at them for being a lard and they are going to wish they had bought two tickets for the sole sake that I would not have been sitting next to them. Thats one way of making the fat people buy two tickets, just be so outwardly nasty to them that they don't want anyone to sit next to them. It's the only way that they will learn. Then they will think twice about subjecting someone else to their fat because they won't want to get off the plane crying all the time.

And I'll add my pet irritation (in addition to obesity) at this point. People who douse themselves in powerful colognes or perfumes before boarding a plane (or other spaces such as elevators)!!!!!There is nothing more irritating than to be in a confined space and unable to breathe because of someone's body odor due to their "cosmetics". I end up with severe headaches for hours after being in such confinement.

This is perhaps the most profound portion of this discussion. I'm allergic to perfumes and of course some scented cleaning agents and in fact have lobbied legislators to ban their use in confined areas much the same as smoking rregulations.... Fragrance free zones,anyplace there is no smoking lets also ban fragrances for the same reasons.Health risks .... might also explain why an airline could charge extra for severely rotund persons,as a health risk to the remaining passengers exits and egress

AS for the concepts mentioned by others that airlines are privately owned but gov,t regulated this practice must be within the legal scope of gov't. authority,because in my state a business or fraternal organization that serves the public is not permitted to 'permit smoking' on the enclosed premises or within a certain distance from the entrances ,these regulations were put into effect during an ultra-conservative era of control of our state's legislative and executive positions....Perhaps then the legal authority to create fragrance free areas is already in place and could easily be enforced to protect consumers with this allergic reaction from those obnoxious and just noxious persons around us in those very same spaces.

I'm told this concept won't fly(pun intended) p.u.! because nobody's willing to stop grandma at the diner door after Sunday service and it would cause so many to close for loss of business,but those arguments didn't stop the righteous right from banning smoke anywhere else..

The local American legion folded up last year and oddly enough they can't find enough people here to serve more than a couple flights daily at the airport,fat or otherwise. Strange,it used to be a busy commercial airport when I was a kid and now G.A. is all that keeps it open,but still gets alot of fedeal grants to expand

I'd rather fly next to that wacko with the exploding underpants than screaming children or jabbering drunks. Is it really so bad to be sitting next to fat people? I've had plenty of flights where I was sitting next to someone who did actually overflow the armrest or put it up altogether and -GASP!- there were even some instances of BODILY CONTACT!!! How in the WORLD I survived a couple split seconds of clothed physical contact with a stranger is so totally beyond me!

(Yes people, I'm being sarcastic)

*shakes head*

I don't think I've ever seen a more frightened, sniveling, entitled generation of humans.

Solidox - If you have to explain that you are being sarcastic, your really not being sarcastic.

I just want to use the entire seat that I paid for - not some fraction of the seat. Oh, and I have no problem with bodily contact as long as it's comfortable to both myself and the other party.

I don't like kicking/screaming kids any better than you do, but if I had a choice between them and someone spilling over into my seat then I'll take the kids hands down.

Speaking of fragrances, imagine the fragrance of the woman in the picture's fragrance...I'm sure she has to smell like a flower...a Limburger flower...

If you only purchase one seat, but once on the plane, you see that it is not full, and you take up two seats, they do not charge you. And who buys two seats if they are not so fat as to need them?

If only airlines could charge for stupidity...........

They do! it's called the Airline Security Tax.

corvettedude is not stupid. He has a point. If I get charged to check a bag, or have to pay even more because my bag is overweight by 5 pounds, why can someone weigh 200 pounds more than me and not have to pay?

That really sucks elljaye. This is exactly why people who take up two seats need to pay for two seats.

That fat lady was stealing from you. You paid for a seat and she took away half of it.

What you should have done was put your car keys in in your side pants pocket and just crammed your body into the seat as fast as you could. Give the fatty some bruises on her thigh as motivation to lose weight. Then, during the flight, periodically twist the keys around in your pocket. As long as your keys are in the space belonging to your seat, she can't complain.

...

Carl, I'm not mean like that. I am sure the woman was embarrassed which is why she would not look at me. I really blame the airline and their not having a protocol to try to solve such a problem. Instead, they chose to treat me as if I were to blame. Obviously, they haven't been trained to handle such a situation hence their hostility towards me for making that painfully obvious.

elljaye

Carl, I'm not mean like that. I am sure the woman was embarrassed which is why she would not look at me. I really blame the airline and their not having a protocol to try to solve such a problem. Instead, they chose to treat me as if I were to blame. Obviously, they haven't been trained to handle such a situation hence their hostility towards me for making that painfully obvious.

I was just going to say, this was very plainly a failure of the airline and the flight staff. I'm not terribly sure there was much you could have done since it seems the staff was obviously not willing to do their jobs at all. They're supposed to handle situations like that and not just dismiss them.

They should have immediately found you a new seat, even if the only available seat was in first/business class. Failing that, they should have tried to rearrange the seating so a much smaller person was in the window seat. Failing THAT, they could have even offered you or her compensation for taking the next flight, in first/business class. There are ALWAYS options and it's unfortunate you got shafted with extremely unprofessional, downright misanthropic flight staff.

It wouldn't fix the problem of fat passengers overflowing onto other peoples' seat.

I'm 6'3" and 230 lbs. Air travel is not extremely comfortable (mostly because of my long legs), but I can fit in my seat discretely without overflowing into somebody else's seat.

I should not have to pay for two tickets because I can fit in one seat.

However, if somebody is 5'1" and 230 lbs, they have the same weight as I do, but that person is going to have a huuuuuuuge ass. That person will not fit into one seat.

A tall, average-portioned 230-pound person can fit in a seat (barely, but I fit).

A short, thick, fat 230-pound person needs to pay for an extra seat because that person does not fit into one seat.

Pricing people by the pound won't work.

I agree Carl. The issue is not weight, it is width!

My husband, now retired from the airlines, was pilot for over 40 years. The assumption when balancing weight in flight is that each seat holder weights 200 lbs. This is the norm and to my knowledge - has not changed.

They can. Read my post #15 above.

I was actually referring to planes with a two seat arrangements, but point taken.

Pricing by weight wouldn't solve the problem.

An average-portioned 230-pound person who is 6'3" will fit in a normal airline seat without invading somebody else's space.

A short, thick, fat 230-pound person who is 5'1" will NOT fit in a normal airline seat and will overflow into somebody else's space.

Airlines should charge for the number of seats a person occupies, not how much they happen to weigh.

A short, thick, fat 230-pound person who is 5'1" will NOT fit in a normal airline seat and will overflow into somebody else's space.

Do you go around weighing everybody on the plane?

If you're a private pilot in a small plane you ask,then add 20 lbs. as a general rule...near the weight capacity of the craft? then you burn off fuel on the ground or something doesn't go onboard,and air captains have both this authority and responsibility.

That's an awesome idea, however I'm pretty sure the discreet option is gone since everyone will be watching the fat person try to squeeze through. It would be very entertaining to watch

People know how fat they are! If they are selfish enough to try to not buy an extra seat. It's not my problem. I long ago discovered the car-key trick. If they think they can steal part of my seat for free, they have a long un comfortable trip ahead!

HazCats

People know how fat they are! If they are selfish enough to try to not buy an extra seat. It's not my problem. I long ago discovered the car-key trick. If they think they can steal part of my seat for free, they have a long un comfortable trip ahead!

"Steal" part of your seat? *rolls eyes* What if the fat person does the car keys trick on you? Kind of sounds like checkmate to me.

You've seen those things at the gate that say if your bag won't fit inside this space you must gate-check it. Why not the same for a seat width? If your A$$ doesn't fit in this space you must buy a second seat. Then it has nothing to do with weight, just WIDTH. This eliminates the concerns of the 6'2" 230 pounder I bet... I was at Cedar Point amusement park, and THEY had seats you had to fit in before they let you on some of those coasters... It was a safety thing. Well guess what: it's a safety thing in an airplane too.