Until we eliminate the AMERICAN drug usage problem and end the demand for the drugs, they will continue to flow into the US and the drug gangs will continue to flourish. Most of the drugs are not coming in across the Mexican border. They are arriving aboard boats and planes coming from the Caribbean Islands (including the USVI, one of the major crossroads for the drugs), SE Asia, etc. through our ports along the Atlantic, Pacific, and Gulf Coasts. I guess you missed the story yesterday about the submarine filled with drugs that was seized.

Cross another potential destination off the list. Indeed, it's becoming a very short list.

This happened in the Virgin Islands…….not Texas or New Mexico. What does closing the borders have to do with this instance. In fact it does more to prove that the borders have nothing to do with drug violence because even an ocean can not keep the violence out. Better yet, easy access to firearms plays more of a roll in this story than our current border situation.

Increasing legal immigration wisely, and cutting illegal immigration at the same time, would be good.

guenavere: I don't understand your post. How does closing the land border with Mexico or Canada have anything to do with our island territories?

The US Virgin Islands are a territory of the USA just like Puerto Rico. So this happened in America! Sp sealing the border is not relevant in this situation.

Talk about an uninformed parrot... The gangs on the islands are poor, uneducated decadents of slaves. And this is simply the result of the islands having no real economy. Most tourists arrive by cruise ship and are on the islands for no more than 8 hours. They spend a little money on tax free booze and cigarettes and then leave.

Puerto Rico is what we wanted Cuba to become...

And as a Puerto Rican, I have to say, Cuba would have been better off! Hell, what do you need me to tell you that for. Visit Florida sometime and ask any Cuban American how they feel about Castro.

No one would like changes to border security and enforcement of immigration policies more than I, but, Guenavere, this article is about a poor young girl who was killed while on vacation with her family. Why don't we just say how sad this is, say a prayer for her and her family and offer condolences? It's a horrible thing. I feel sorry for them.

They spend a little money on tax free booze and cigarettes

I'm sure that teenager from Puerto Rico was buying booze and cigarettes from one American territory to take back to another American territory.

Since the young girl was Puerto Rican and the gang member was USVI, it was technically a US Citizen being murdered by another US Citizen... It is asinine for xenophobes to bring up immigration and boarder policy in comments about this story. Besides, all most illegal immigrants do is cut our grass and provide us with cheap tomatoes and strawberries. I, like most Americans, am too lazy to cut my own grass, too cheap to pay $5 bucks for a tomato, and I really hate paying more than $40 for an eighth... it just seems weird.

Fact is most Americans have easy access to firearms. We have four hand guns ourselves. But you don't see us all running around firing willy-nilly at everyone we get mad at. And most people who own had guns and rifles do not randomly shoot at people. Now teenagers everywhere - that's another matter...they don't have the moral restrictions about shooting people, animals or paper targets. As far as they are concerned it's a live version of Grand Theft Auto. He who scores the highest kill ratio wins.

Does not matter if it's here in the US, on a small island or in Africa. As long as there are gangs, drugs, poverty, poor education levels and little or no chance to improve your life's situation these tragedies will continue. And the survivors who are damaged by their life situation will breed more in to deepening poverty to repeat the cycle over and over. It is not America's fault poverty, drug, low education, poor health and no national economy exsists in other parts of the world. Blame their corrupt Governments and Tribal War Lords and lack of personal responsibilty.

Try to illuminate the need to eat or breath, its not going to happen soon nor is the "need" for the addicts supply going to dry up soon, in other words there are always going to be drug addicts in our communities. How to get a handle on it though is another story. Make it legal for a person to use drugs with a prescription with the understanding that that person can not operate equipment or perform any critical job or work which would endanger either self or others while under the effects of the drugs and place a tax on the drugs. Not to many years ago I used to buy from the U.S. Government pure crystal powder cocaine for medical purposes for a cost of about $5.25 for 1/4 lb I think it was. Now with costs rising the way they are I figure that I would have to pay about $25 for the same product. I do not know about the dilution of the drug but do know that when I received this stuff in shipments the people who seemed to know could not believe that a bottle holding about 50cc of this pure stuff was in this security cage and I had paid so little for it. So lets assume for discussion sake that I dilute it by a factor to get it to be less than 10% pure (again I have no idea just how pure the stuff needs to be) and out of that there are say 300 "doses" to sell at $10/ea or a total of $3,000.00. Now if the government puts a tax on it of 100% which means instead of the $5.25 I paid instead I pay $10.50 to buy it and the buyer pays a tax on it to the government of 100% so pays $20.00 per hit the government clears a nice $6,000.00 on something that costs about $5.00! The costs of course need to be figured in so lets say it costs a total of another $50.00 to cut and package this for distribution the government would still clear a nice amount in taxes, be able to find who is a drug user, make the drug legal thus clear out the prisons of those convicted of being a user but NOT sellers or pushers. Most of these people could go back to be productive members of society rather than sitting in prisons costing millions of dollars a year! The same goes for morphine as well. Make the drug trade so unprofitable for the pushers and transporters there is no need for their services. CONTROL IT BY MAKING IT LEAGAL then taxing it. When a person is ready to get off the stuff they can either cut back and slowly taper off or go to a treatment facility. As to the so call speed, yes we could do the same thing and make it so cheap that the pushers, the manufactures or labs could not make money selling it, tax it and then sell it by prescription. The only problem with this stuff is that once addicted always addicted from what I understand. Still, if that is what these people want sell it to them legally and end the drug trade but the user MUST hold a job to support him/herself before they can purchase the stuff legally, if they can not locate a job then they can do community service to support themselves so they are eligible to purchase the "medication" legally and at low cost. Again it would not cost much to manufacture and be distributed by an prescription from special pharmacies. We thus eliminate the need for the illegal drug labs, the pushers and have more or less all the users registered. The only people who would go to jail would be those who sell these drugs illegally or transport them into the country illegally. There would be a vast amount of empty space in the prisons for real criminals and the cost to house them would be drastically reduced. So everyone wins by making these drugs legal and the same goes for pot. Just make it legal, tax it, sell it by prescription with the understanding one MUST be working to purchase the medication.

That's right, the point of this story is about guns and drugs and the resulting gang wars that develop from both. And not all of the gang members are "poor, uneducated decadents of slaves." They are also hispanic (from PR and DR/Haiti), and other ethnic groups. They are also no more "uneducated" than any of the gang members in any locality in the good ole US mainland. And I think you meant to say descendants, not decadents.

A man would get 75 years in prison in a similar situation.

St Thomas IS part of the US. Its a U.S. Territory, which is why its in the U.S. Virgin Islands... The only border they have is nice white sandy beaches !!!

retiredtohome is absolutely correct. however, the main opponents to the legalization of drugs are the drug cartels and the police.

the cartels have the money and muscle to either bribe or intimidate any politician considering a law that would make the drugs legal.

the cops spout their hysterical B.S. about the dire consequences of legal drugs so they can keep getting their payoffs (grants and special funding for their "war on drugs" and the ability to confiscate cars, trucks, houses, etc. that the cops claim "were used in the drug trade."

so, the chances of drugs being legalized are slim to none and slim is on the way out of town.

My condolences to the family. They must be devastated. How tragic. b

Derek-381097 I'm from Florida, and all my friends are cubans. Yes they don't agree with Castro, but that has nothing to do with drug gangs and violence. In cuba children can play outside anywhere, day or night, with no fear of being shot to death.

what a shame i spent some time on St thomas and thought it was a lovely island with wonderful people. There are bad guys everywhere I hope this doesn't turn into another Aruba situation where one bad incident ends up hurting thousands of good people and their livelihoods.

carol, my comment is in response to the post above mine. And all I have to say about children playing anywhere outside, day or night, with no fear of being shot to death...is I call Bulls**T

I take it that geography was not your best subject Guenavere...

"Guenavere:" WTF are you ranting about? And BTW, it's spelled "Guinnevere," you moron.

What does this have to do with the border, the virgin islands are not considered a border to the us.

Ivanap....We can't control what happens over there, but we CAN at least TRY to control it here.

Aggie, are you referring to the US Virgin Isles as "over there"? You do realize that as a US territory, the residents are Americans, right?

WELL aware that the Virgin Islands are U.S. territories. "Over there" refers to the PHYSICAL LAND MASS as opposed to U.S. on the continent of North America...on this land mass. OUR home LAND. You're talking about the population/citizens/people, I am talking about the location/area/land mass. Understand?

Acoustictherapy said:

"And BTW, it's spelled "Guinnevere," you moron."

Are you sure about that Acoustictherapy?

Actually the most popular spelling is Guinevere with 1(one)N. Alternate spellings in Old English and Welsh are Guenevere and Gwenhwyfar.

Or Guenavere could be the latin spelling of another name. Ultra moron!

Guenavere , you are an idiot!

That is true. St. Thomas is bad. I only go there just long enough to catch a ferry to St. John which in my experience is about 100 times more safe than St. Thomas.

Actually, St. John isn't much safer on a proportional basis of population/visitor count. Our murder rate on all three islands has been escalating way too rapidly in the past 2-3 years. It all has to do with the economy and lack of jobs, just as it does in the mainland.

Now is not the time to be pitting one island against the other. The "US Virgin Islands consists of three islands.... St. Thomas, St. Croix and St. John. When any major crime ocurrs on either island, ALL the islands suffer. Let's do our best not to further tear down or condemn one island over the other... let us work together so that all the criminal elements in the Virgin Islands see that we won't condone this type of action and help send a message that this is not the place for criminals to come and feel comfortable...give them no safe haven at all...

I agree with VI Resident.

IMO the worst thing islanders can do is let the criminals win by allowing them use their most powerful weapons on us: fear and intimidation.

All I was saying as a resident of STX is that STT does not usually "play fair" on reporting the crime and letting it get out into the "mainstream" media. Yes, we do need to work together as a territory to solve the problems of the territory. It's too bad that there still is the longstanding battle of the islands.

The majority of illegals are not part of the drug smuggling, according to Border Patrol stats. Yes, the Mexican Drug Cartel violence is spreading across the border at an alarming rate, but "closing" our borders has never, and will never, work unless we build a 40' high and 40' deep wall with electrified soil even deeper and buried land mines on the Mexican side of that wall. if people want to get into this country illegally, they will find a way to do it, no matter how well we try to seal the border. As I said above, until we end the American drug usage, we will never solve the drug smuggling problem. It's just another case of the rule of supply and demand. As long as there is a demand for the drugs in this country, the supply will just keep flowing.

The real point of the story though is the death of a tourist as a result of local gang wars battling over their turfs and gun violence. It is interesting that this story got posted at about the same time as the story on the growing influence of the NRA. Too bad they don't address the violence their push for gun rights continues to further in this country.

If that is the case than why do they keep finding drugs on illegals crossing the border. The drug cartels use them And since our borders are so lax, it is an easy way to get them into the US.

Yes, some illegals are found with drugs on them, but that is not now most of the drugs from Mexico enter the country....they are hidden in vehicles that pass through the check points, just as they do across the Canadian border and through our seaports and airports (small rural airports especially where there is little or no security.)

Oops, just reread the above post and caught a typo....it should have read "that is not how..." Spell check doesn't catch that kind of error.

Anti-trust... solving the drug problem is only a small part of the puzzle. It must be border control (essential), illegal alien (not immigrant) control, a government willing to do its job and not worry about the votes, government willing to serve the people of this nation which they are failing miserably at. And there is far..far..more drugs entering this country through Mexico than Canada. Just my thought...

Somebody please correct me if I am mistaken, but when I lived in St Croix for three years, it was illegal to own a gun in the VI. Therefore it is mainly the criminals that HAVE them.

I remember sitting on the floor of the condo below the windows on New Years eve to protect ourselves from the gunfire at midnight (no fireworks on island either), coming from the Govt provided housing down the hill.

My condolences to the family....... very unfortunate.

Illegals who want to, will find a way into our country. But we must still secure our borders and stem the flow (from a gusher to a trickle) of illegals into our country. Doing nothing is not an option.

"The real point of the story though is the death of a tourist as a result of local gang wars battling over their turfs and gun violence. It is interesting that this story got posted at about the same time as the story on the growing influence of the NRA. Too bad they don't address the violence their push for gun rights continues to further in this country"

I understand your sentiments, I really do. However I have to strongly disagree. The ONE fact that the anti-gun rights side always seem to fail to recognize is that those who use guns in violent crimes are COMMITTING CRIMES!! Do you really think that these animals give a damn about whether or not owning a gun is legal? The sole reason that the founding fathers created the 2nd amendment is due to the fact that they knew the only way to stop tyranny was to ensure that the people had the means to defend themselves against tyrants in the first place. (If one studies history, you can see how well this is illustrated by the fact that ALL tyrants fear a persons ability to defend them-self).

Anti-trust,

What do gun rights have to do with anything? This article is about warring gangs in the USVI. Gang members typically aren't law abbiding citizens and wouldn't follow any gun laws put in place anyway.

the story on the growing influence of the NRA. Too bad they don't address the violence their push for gun rights continues to further in this country.

It's like you stated. It's is the rule of supply and demand. As long as there is a demand, the supply will continue. But the real point is that if there were no guns, people would find another means to force others for control. It started with the beginning of man. The caveman used clubs and thus began the escalation.

Those mexican drug cartels commit violence using guns smuggled from America because it is so easy to get a gun here. The hypocrisy of gun rights people saying they need to own a gun to protect themselves from..yes guns bought legally in the US is laughable.

small McCain business -

!f doing nothing is not an option, then why are the Republicans refusing to address it in Congress?

You are absolutely right on that point the thinker. And for those arguing against my gun control points, yes, I know that gun laws do nothing to stop the illegal guns, any more than legalizing drugs will stop the illegal trade of drugs. Criminals will always find ways of getting their guns, drugs, and any other substance they want outside of the law until we really start to crack down on the source(s). Of course, if law enforcement does a raid for any of this illegal traffic, then we hear about government intervention into our lives. That is my point on gun control and on drug control.

As far as the USVI gun laws, guns are legal in the territory and there is a gun registration program, with training required to get the permit. And we do have fireworks on the island.....used to have them both in Christiansted and Frederiksted, but due to costs and a serious injury to one of the people setting off the display at the Yacht Club a few years ago, the C'sted displays were stopped. I don't know how the gun firing ever got started here, or anywhere else in the country, on the 4th or on New Year's Eve. And there are always people firing off their "illegal" fireworks as well.

yes it is a well established fact that if we banned guns drug dealers wouldnt get them. you know like we banned drugs and drug dealers dont have drugs now. oh wait.

As a geography teacher I am aware of that. But the U. S. Virgin Islands are part of the US or they would not be calling it the US Virgin Islands. Got that? I was encompassing the US possessions as well when I said the Uited States.

I guess she (?) was picking up on the US part of Virgin Islands and tying it into the drug crimes on the mainland. It is amazing how close we really are to the mainland, even with 1000 miles separating us. I've lived on St. Croix for nearly 15 years now and have seen the drug traffic and related drug violence on a rapid rise, especially over the past 5 years. As more and more people are affected by low incomes and unemployment, the more people become involved in the drug trade. It is a very lucrative "business", even if it becomes a very dangerous business. The drive-by shootings are increasing every month here.

Wow. A geography teacher who turns a story about a killing in the Virgin Islands into a partisan rant about the Mexican border and "bleeding hearts". And they wonder what is wrong with schools today.

Teacher, if we close all our borders, won't that make the rest of the world worried we are about to start something? We ARE the most dangerous country in the world and NOT liked by most.

Anti-trust--Sorry to here it has gotten so bad. I will cherish my time on St. Croix for the rest of my life and was sad to have to leave.

How I long for a good ole' island crawl from Christiansted to the Sundowner finishing up dominoes and pork in the rain forest buying beer for the beer drinking pig!

To me, St Thomas was always the more dangerous of the islands for robbery because of all of the tourists being targets for robbery, but this is out of control.

Only hope it gets better. For those who have never been there, please do not let this incient sway your desire from going on island. It is a great place with lovely people but just like anywhere you travel to, you have to be mindful of where you are.

This sad occurence was a case of wrong place wrong time. My sympathy to the family.

Colo, That post was total BS. You need to educate yourself about who has evil intentions and who does not. It has nothing to do with who has the biggest Navy.

First of all I cant seem to understand how some are tying this terrible story to border patrol action. The fact that this takes place on an Island that is a U.S. territorty goes against the whole logic of the border closing argument. Secondly, from what I learned and observed in my time on STT is that guns are HIGHLY illegal and strictly controlled. This is not like most states on the mainland with gun shops in most cities. Almost no private citizens can legally carry guns, and the authorities do heavily enforce this. There is a significant ATF and DEA presence (for an island) and basically the cops dont @!$%# around with guns. What happened here is horrible and we should get back to the main reason for drug violence in our society today...America's insatiable thirst for mind-altering substances.

It is a fact that prohibition does not work, period. The U.S. tried this with alcohol remember folks. The only thing it did was enable the Mafia to become even stronger. Until prohibition, these gangs were not that big a problem. Sure they were involved in extortion, and prostitution and other small time crimes, but after the 19th amendment was enacted, they become larger than life and raked in millions of dollars. Crime, especially violent crime shot up. After that, they became a life long problem. Humans will always, and have always experimented with substances to alter their state of mind. You cannot stop it. If you try, people go to the black market to purchase things illegally. I am a historian and I have studied this phenomenon. The Roman empire also tried banning certain types of alcohol during the reign of Augustus when he enacted laws to encourage more Patrician families to have children, stay married, and to discourage marital affairs. It did not work. A flourishing black market for strong drink thrived under his reign, and he lost the tax revenue. The laws were reversed upon his death. There are other examples throughout history.
If we were to leagalize all of these drugs, they could be regulated and taxed. The same people that do them now would still do them only they wouldn't have to endanger other people just to aquire them. By leagalizing, we would eliminate all incetives for the drug gangs within and without the country. They would eventually disappear for there would be no need for their services. They would not have to battle for their turfs which would save literally thousands of lives every year. This is not to say that others would not die from the use of drugs, quite the contrary. You would still loose thousands of lives every year from the use of these drugs, but these lives are lost anyway. We currently allow a poison, and yes it is a poison just ask any chemist or doctor, to be used by tens of millions in this country no. This poison is called alcohol, and it kills tens of thousands each year on our roads alone. We also allow a weed to be sold also, and that weed is tabaco. It kills hundreds of thousands each year from various diseases.
Yes I know that drugs destry lives, but we can't stop it and we have wasted hundreds of billions of dollars trying. Lets reverse this trend and actually make some money from it and in the process reduce criminal activity in our country. This is not to say it would be eliminated totally, but it would be greatly reduced. I would also like to say that prostitution needs to be leagalized and take this activity out of the criminals hands also. Don't try and bring your moralizing religious arguments into this either. That line off thinking is what led to the prohibition of alcohol and it was shown to be an utter failure.

Gary-

yes indeed, history has shown and continues to prove that we need another way.

I agree Gary.....eliminate the crime, you will emiminate the criminal element.

As a geography teacher I am aware of that. But the U. S. Virgin Islands are part of the US

Where do you teach geography? The reason I ask is I don't want my child being taught by you. The U.S. Virgin Islands are NOT part of the U.S. They are a territory as part of an insular area. The U.S. still has many but has relinquished control of several such as the Panama Canal area, Okinawa, etc.

I suggest you open your texts before you start grading your students. It seems you have a lot to learn also.

Play it again Sam

Geography teachers don't need to know how to spell and form sentences? Weird.

Actually the thinker, I have to disagree with you on that. The USVI was purchased from Denmark in 1917. Puerto Rico was seized in the late 1890's. I don't remember the exact terms of our Pacific territory additions. Yes we are a territory as part of what is called an insular area, and under the control of the Organic Act (Congressional control with no vote in either branch of the legislature, only on any committees our Delegate is a member of.) We are citizens of the US and are part of the US just as any person living in any mainland state and under the same laws as all other US citizens. That is why no passport is required to visit Puerto Rico or the USVI.

As a drug user, you are just making the problem worse. Like a previous poster said. As long as there is supply and demand this problem will never go away. And you are on the demand end and part of the problem. You think legalizing drugs is a good idea. Ask those people who have lost lived ones including me to drug crazed maniacs. Legalizing it will just make it worse. It is like pouring gasoline on an already hot fire. Legalizing it would just add more people taking them.

Legalizing drugs WOULD help the situation. See we no longer have bootleg Mafia style thugs running through the US anymore because we legalized alcohol. a large majority of drug users that pose a problem now are the ones addicted to prescribed medications, so how are the drug cartel a part of the Pharm. business?????? I feel we should legalize pot since it has been proven to have positive affects and I have never heard of anyone ODing on POT. Worse case scenario is they get hungry, they are relaxed and they have red eyes. Big deal. You sound like those who were against legalizing alcohol back in the day because if it worked and it did it would mean you are WRONG!!!

To add to what 'usa is great' said, When was the last time you heard of someone taking a few hits off their bong and beating their wife or kids? Compare that with the last time you heard of someone getting drunk and beating their wife or kids. The latter happens all the time, I've never heard of the former happening.

I 2nd the "legalize it" idea for pot. Not only would it create a new taxed import, it would also eliminate the "inner city drug dealer" as far as heroin, crystal meth, crack, etc. The punishment for sale or possession any of these drugs needs to be so overwhelmingly severe, no one would even consider messing with them. I don't condone legalizing the "hard stuff", mostly because these drugs are not "harmless", they are deadly.

The majority of the "Mexican" drug smuggling, like most of the other drug smuggling is NOT pot, but the hard drugs. I see every day the effects of those drugs, with the "fried brains" homeless robbing our homes, begging on the streets, etc. to continue to feed their drug problem. The killings are only a part of the dangers of the American drug problem. There are many other crimes that result from it as well. My apartment was broken into four times, and attempted break-ins an additional four times, my vehicles were damaged so many times I lost track (stolen batteries, tires, starters, and other parts), and I was the victim of a mugging once. There is no real way to secure your home or your car. Alarms don't stop the drug addict from breaking in and the police never arrive in time to catch them. Those TV commercials for alarm systems never really tell that part of the story or the small percentage of cases that are ever solved.

anti--Burglary is a way of life there for some and is not all attributable to druggies.

Just as burglary is a way of life in all other parts of the US. I did not say that it was all attributable to druggies, but just like elsewhere, a lot of it is. Economic hardship also plays into robberies, etc. I was simply pointing out that the violence isn't all that the drug problem creates in our communities.

That's brilliant. Unfortunately we don't live in the wild wild west. When you have a valid idea that's within the realm of reality, by all means chime in, until then, STFU.

Nice name, It's ironic that you chose the name of a total idiot while you say things like a total idiot.

I agree with Dubbya on that one! Shoot em all!

Well, at least you're showing your true colors...

And there it is.. guen shows her xenophobia to the rest of us. 'Close the borders, get me a gun, oh, oh Muslims.... baddddd, brown people are getting closer'

I knew if guenavere kept talking we'd here something like this.

Yep, I saw this coming since her first post.

Hey, LBJ declared war on drugs. Just another war started by the DNC.

LBJ may have started it, but we've had Presidents and representatives keep it going from all sides of the aisle.

To blame one side or the other is ridiculous. Get a new line of horse-hockey - I'm bored with this one.

You need to check your facts! The term, "War on Drugs", was first use and declared by Republican President Richard M. Nixon on June 17, 1971.

That's why I said "may have started it" I've got more interesting things to do with my time than investigate which political party did what. They're both corrupt.

My comment still stands.

One of the major threats to our country today is inaccurate statements, half-truths, and out right lies. To have "more interesting things to do with my time" is a lame excuse for not stating things correctly. Indeed, with that attitude, our representation in Congress is actually representing their constituents accurately if Truth means boredom and has no value!

BTW: it only takes SECONDS to check facts. To not check "facts" is lazy and irresponsible.

Interesting. I agree that a major threat to the country is the corrupt state our government has become with money and bipartisan politics being more important the good of our countrymen and women.

Let me state this as correctly as possible for you, knowing the FACTS of whether LBJ or Nixon started the official war on drugs doesn't have a dang thing to do with a 14 year old girl getting shot and killed in front of her family while on vacation with her parents when the tour bus drove through a violence charged area.

I didn't state anything incorrectly. Lame, indeed.

They are not as dangerous as drugs are either and dont have the same affects. More drug addicts are responsible for serious crime than alcoholics or smokers. As I said in my previous post, legalizing would just add more addicts to the already bulging amount. And it will lead to a whole new generation of drug users. Would you want to lose a family member to a drug crazed maniac? I did.

they are just as DEADLY!!!!!!!!! Try telling a family who lost someone due to s drunk driver or perhaps someone who died from emphysema from smoking that what they did was not dealdy or harmful. The Prescribed PILLS, COCAINE, LSD, PCP AND HERION should remain illegal and those who get busted with it shoul dbe required to seek treatment or stay in prison until "they" are ready to make that change in their lives.

You don't see any alcohol or tobacco cartels having public shoot-outs, do you?

Not since Prohibition. :-)

Super ... lets legalize ALL drugs ... but then let's also eliminate age limits on alchohol purchases ... let's put pot vending machines in High School and dumb down our kids even more ... also, while we're at it we should also legalize all fully automatic weapons and silencers so the criminals don't have to worry deal with the hassels of trying not get caught.

Please, don't test my intelligence with this notion of legalizing drugs ... you legalize drugs, all you will accomplish is nothing. You will still have black market "cheap" drugs that groups will be fighting to control, theft of the "good stuff" before it hits the distribution systems ... and do you think there will be no issues with FDA corruption.

S Texan, that happens with cigarettes and alcohol now. There is no testing your intelligence on this issue. Read my post above and you will see there are many arguments for legalization. Many conservatives are for legalization, such as William F. Buckley. Prohibition never works, it just creates more criminal activity. Your comments in the first paragraph are just plain ignorant as you know these things would not happen. Alcohol and tobacco are far worse than any other drug because of their appeal to a larger audience because ignorant people deem that they are not as danderous as 'drugs'. This is patently false. Alcohol is responsible for tens of thousands of deaths on our roadways each year alone. We have lost far more people to alcohol related read deaths than in all of our wars combined. Yet we continue to allow alcohol to be sold and abused by people. Hundreds of thousands die each year from tobacco related diseases. What are we going to do, outlaw tobacco and alcohol. We already tried alcohol once and it was an unmitigated disaster.

More drug addicts are responsible for serious crime than alcoholics or smokers

This is patently FALSE; a statistic you just made up. It appears your ignorance knows no bounds, guen.

Please, don't test my intelligence with your histrionic slippery slopes.

Dumb down our kids even more ? You're from Texas, right ? I don't think it's possible to dumb down kids more than your school system is already doing.

You want slippery slopes ? How's this, first you fill your textbooks with bs, next you'll just do away with textbooks completely, and just get the NRA and Sarah Palin to come in and give your kids motivational speeches. Then you'll have a bunch of dumb kids with guns.

But perhaps you're right after all. The sky will fall if pot is legalized. You'll convince more people though if you use valid arguments. You could start with the FACTS of what happened when alcohol prohibition ended. Or wait... that wouldn't prove your point, would it ?

Or maybe it would, in a Texas history book.

S Texan: How could legalizing and regulating drugs increase the access of teenagers to drugs? The best way to find drugs now is to ask a teenager where to get them. They are in every high school and middle school in the country already. The supply and demand would be unchanged. If even a third of the money that is saved from reduced prison and law enforcement costs and new tax revenues were used to educate, counsel, and attempt to address the issues that lead to drug abuse in teenagers (where most drug abuse begins) we could almost certainly begin to see a decrease in demand. The demand is where the problem originates and where it can be fixed. It just takes more time, more effort, and more understanding. Not nearly as satisfying perhaps as shooting or capturing the dealers and importers, but far more productive in the long run.

Wally- don't assume an entire state thinks, acts and has the same opinions or intelligence. Don't offend an entire state with a blanket assessment. I'm sure you have some real boneheads in your state. Should we assume you are all boneheads? That was just dumb.

Ghost, what blanket assessment ? I said nothing about Texans. I said their textbooks rewrite history.

If the "entire state" is offended by that statement (which I very much doubt as I know many Texans who agree with me) then perhaps the "entire state" needs to rethink the policy.

However, ok. Point taken. I will try not to be snide in the future.

Thanks Wally

And bootlegging still occurs because of all of the taxes (stills are still operating in the hills of the southeast, especially in KY.) Blackmarket prescription drugs sales happen every day. Tobacco is the one product that isn't as easy to "bootleg" but even that occurs with smuggling from cheaper localities to higher priced localities (again taxes.)

If bootlegging is still occurring in KY then KY needs to address this issue and get rid of the stills. They did that in NC and the stills are now just rusting away in the fields. In MD they tax everything so I know the Governor would not sit by and let this tax revenue got to waste, again the voters in KY need to address this.

They already face death by sticking a needle in their arm every time they use. Do you actually think that will stop an addict from getting what they want? The answer is NOooooo!

BillyBoy and Tahoe - funny how whenever a story like this is published folks like you immediately attack gun rights with idiotic posts that have no true bearing on the story. If I was an anti gunner I'd tell you to shut up and stop trying to help as your ignorance degrades your cause. With that said, I'm very sorry for the families involved, I can only imagine the pain they must feel. Take the profit out of anything and criminals tend to stop.

Take the money we spend on law enforcement and incarceration and put it into drug rehab and education programs.

But that is part of the problem. When you take away the basis of a "business" it has cascading effect. There are associated businesses that suffer. It was part of the reason for the government bailing out the auto industry - besides the manufacturers, there were the assorted parts suppliers for the new cars, the parts repair suppliers, etc. In this case, the police department would be losing a great source of revenue and their empire is undermined. The judicial and penal systems are also impacted and affects those empires. What are all of the DEA agents going to do when they become unemployed?

I agree with you that the government is out to do what is best for America but to do what is best for their agendas.

Maybe the D.E.A. could get in to Border Patrol!

One can call it whatever they want, but since the legal definition of 'self defense' evaporates if you are breaking the law at the time you try to 'defend' yourself, it does not, should not, apply here.

The thug shot while attending the funeral was, no doubt, not legally authorized to possess, let alone be carrying, the handgun he used to shoot back with. Considering his involvement with ongoing criminal activities, he was hardly a victim of a crime. Instead, he was just as guilty as the guys in the Honda Civic who were shooting at him.

What happened to him is a good illustration of 'you made your bed, now lay in it'. In his case, the cost of doing that kind of business was his health, if not his life. Unfortunately, if he survived, I doubt he gave a hoot about the Purto Rican girl on the bus who got caught up in his dirty business and lost her life as a result. I have no sympathy for him and can't say I feel too shook up about him being denied first aid, either.

the legal definition of 'self defense' evaporates if you are breaking the law at the time you try to 'defend' yourself,

Self defense does not "evaporate" by carrying an illegal firearm - if that is your assertion. Carrying an illegal weapon does not negate the precept of self defense. Self defense is an animalistic fight for survival by using whatever means necessary.

the handgun he used to shoot back with.

Police said 18-year-old Shadid Joseph's body was found Monday with a loaded gun.

Finding a gun on his body is different than finding it in his hand (shooting back).

Orca, it sounds like the bigger story here is the corruption within the police department on St. Thomas then. For them to sanction street criminals to be judge, jury, and executioner of anyone in broad daylight surrounded by innocent bystanders is beyond reprehensible. Sounds like the US government needs to take a look at the corruption on this island.

You are absolutely right. Violent crime has been bad there for decades. A police sgt. there told me that "The world is not a safe place anymore". This was in response to my inquiry about a video tape showing a violent crime being committed there that was given to the Police Dept. and then disappeared. Family members involved.

It sounds like 'the thinker' needs to do a little less independent thinking and a bit more learning before (presumably) he thinks himself into a corner.

It is a long established legal precedent that you cannot successfully claim 'self defense' as a defense against homicide charges if you are violating the law at the time you are 'defending yourself'. If you're minding your own business and are assaulted by someone you have not provoked in any way, 'self defense' is viable in court. If you are robbing a bank, let's say, and the police show up while you're making your get away, you can certainly try to claim that you shot at them out of 'self defense', but I guarantee you're not going to get any traction with that because you were committing a felony at the time. If you pick a fight with somebody and try to end it by using any form of deadly force on them, be it an improvised weapon, an edged weapon, or a firearm, 'self defense' absolutely does not apply. Many, many inmates-to-be have already tried that approach and learned first hand that it does not work.

If you want to have the option of using a firearm as a threat management tool, by all means pursue it. But stay 100% legal in doing it and keep out of any dirty business. If somebody tries to kill you while you're transporting stolen property, illicit drugs, laundered money, doing anything related to gang activity, or what have you, you're going to be toast in court, assuming you survive the attempt on your life.

Your 'animalistic fight for survival by using whatever means necessary' works in the wild and in states of anarchy, but not in civilized society. I certainly hope you never find yourself in the position of having to convince a judge and jury of the validity of your position. It isn't likely they'll agree with that, and they have a lot more influence over your destiny at that point than you do.

Warrior Mom...we can't get stronger law enforcement here. Everything you want to send there is needed right here in the states to curb the violence, gang and drug problems. Not slamming, just saying we need it right here in our own backyard.

We own it

We don't OWN it. It is a territory not a possession.

As ghost67 stated, we can't control the gang violence here in the country we do own so how are we supposed to control the violence in other countries?

Actually, the US government does "own" the territory. They bought it from Denmark in 1917, as I stated above. All territories are "possessions" by law. As far as federal agents, we already have many FBI and DEA agents throughout both the USVI and Puerto Rico. The problem is our corrupt court system.....the FBI has a 20% success rate in our courts here, compared to around 80% in FL (that information right from an FBI agent I personally had conversations with.) Part of our legal system problem is that too many of our residents are inter-related in a population of around 110,000 residents. Police and criminals are part of the same families, and the juries are made up of other family members. The only way we will ever be able to solve our crime problems here is the day that our US legal system allows for our law enforcement to come from outside of the territory, along with all of our judges and juries, where we can then get a true impartial justice system. That holds true even in some parts of the US mainland, but not to the extent of the islands.

It hasn't worked in Puerto Rico and I doubt it'll work in the USVI. Unfortunately, there is too much police and government corruption in both places. I don't know about the USVI, but in PR, everytime something like this happens, in broad daylight and plain view of dozens of people, suddenly "nobody saw anything." Usually, because they are either afraid for their lives if they testify or because they know the people involved and want to protect them, even at the expense of the innocent people getting hurt or killed. There's just no easy answer to this problem.

Anyway, I wouldn't necessarily let this situation dissuade you from visiting the islands. PR has a very similar drug and gang problem. Thousands of tourists visit every year without a problem. I myself lived there most of my life and never had any issues either (my mom was mugged once and had her car stolen, and I heard of people's cars getting broken into or stolen, but that's it and that happens in mainland US as well). It's a sad situation, but I don't think these sorts of things should make us have to lock ourselves in our homes. We should, however, educate ourselves about the places we visit and exercise caution to the best of our ability.

Sorry but you are wrong. I am an American and I do not own a gun, I do however think anyone who wants to own one legally can do so. The NRA promotes legal gun rights. These puck asses and the ones over here in the US who kill others are majority illegal guns. Perhaps you should go back to tree hugging since trees are what you are concerned with with regards to your screen name.

Bravo, I have a pistol and a few long guns, all legally bought and registered. Their in a safe with locks. The problem we face in the U.S. is we have a few unscruplous gun dealers who sell under the table and some people who import or maunfacturer out of their house firearms for sell to gangsters. Also, we have a problem with prosecutors "not" using the laws on the books now to prosecute persons who have illegal firarms. We dont need new laws, we need prosecutors with a set of balls to use the laws we have.

C'mon, it is not the NRA's fault. They promote LEGAL and safe gun use. Do you honestly think the gangs or illegals are checking in with the NRA or the local police dept. to make sure they are registered to use the gun and get lessons. The Department of Motor Vehicles promotes safe and legal driving, are they at fault when someone drives recklessly and kills someone??

Come on Mapleleaf, get real. Just like Ghost said, the NRA promotes legal firearms and firearm safety. Do you really think criminals buy their guns legally? And you really think banning guns and shutting down groups like the NRA will actually take guns out of the hands of the criminals? Of course it won't. All it will do is take guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens because the criminals will still get their guns.

Hard drugs are illegal in this country and their use is probably as high as ever right now, so don't try to assume that passing laws against gun ownership will make them disappear.

Mapleleaf3 your ignorance is typical of undereducated spineless Bipeds. A gun is nothing more than a tool such as is a car ( cars kill more people than guns, should they be outlawed? ) This is a case as with all gang activities is the cover up of the identities of the members and of the courts not able to strike the most vengefulblow it could ( death to all gang members no matter age or status), but when you have liberals, the aclu, and the world socialist court giving constant leniency to gangs, pirates and constantly just pick on law abiding gun owners actions like this will continue. If not with a gun with an explosive, and if not that with a knife or a machete.

@Patriot: "This is a case as with all gang activities is the cover up of the identities of the members and of the courts not able to strike the most vengefulblow it could ( death to all gang members no matter age or status),"

OMG -Really??? So, those 8 - 10 year olds getting pulled into the culture should just be killed? I'm completely against gangs and the violence they perpetrate (i've experienced it first hand by being 'jumped' and I wasn't in any type of gang or criminal activity), but your desire to kill them all paints you as a nut job.

The Department of Motor Vehicles promotes safe and legal driving, are they at fault when someone drives recklessly and kills someone??

By mapleleaf3's way of thinking, it isn't the DMV responsible for unsafe and illegal driving since their role is the registration of autos much like the BATF handles the registration of weapons. But all illegal and unsafe driving is due to the AAA just like any illegal gun activity is due to the NRA.

But his trolling worked for some.

PyretQueen, When a cancer strikes good tissue must be sacrificed in order to save the whole, such is the case with a developed society. It has been proven for many years children introduced into crime will remain criminal, sure there are very limited exceptions to this rule but very limited. I ensure you that I'm not a "nut job" but someone who has seen the light more than one wishes.

Everyone should ask themselves what they are willing to sacrifice for someone else who is operating below the general rules of coexistence. Are you willing to be a victim as that young girl or someone who is willing to eliminate the criminal and walk free.

Well, dang, Patriot. My daughters were introduced to crime when my ex-husband beat the snot out of me in front of them. They were also introduced to crime when burglars stole our possesions and when some drunk broke into our apt while we were trying to get back on our feet after having no where to go outside of a shelter. I disagree with your unsubstantiated generalization, or your view that we are all victims or mercenaries. I am neither.

A more accurate statement would have been: Children indoctrinated into crime with no resources for another type of life, will remain criminal without the opportunity, resources, encouragement and desire to do otherwise.

Patriot- 1506681 Since I have worked in the field and have seen that children can indeed have their lives turned around - it that is something we want to see happen, I am wondering where you found the information on studies that prove that children introduced to crime will remain criminal? I would say that without intervention, a caring teacher, a safe place to go after school, etc, the percentage may be higher - but too many kids do turn their lives around, and too many times it is the lack of other opportunities that make the difference. Hey, my grandfather had to live on the streets of New York from 12 yrs to 16 when he lied about his age to get into the Navy, and he did whatever he had to do to survive. Most of his buddies on the street made it out as well - he became an instrumental part of the reconstruction of Italy after WWII. Became a respected member of his community. He said that we get the youth we are willing to have, if criminal gangs are alright with us, we will have them , if we want something else we could have them. The tools exist, comments like yours show the true reason we don't progress. Cancer cells don't belong to the body, these young people do belong to the same human race you do, casting them as "different " enough as not to be human so you can throw them away is a fiction that doesn't reflect well on those who spread it.

Look at the kids in juvy halls and then that go into prison, ask cops who see it every day and day out. I've been in every major city in the U.S. and have seen the realization of what the future holds

Kids who are victims of crime are completly different than those who commit the crimes. As for those who grew up and entered WWII were of a different time and circumstance. And as for a cancer cell goes it is part of our body and NOT a foriegn objected but something that mutates and destroys the healthy just like criminals.

Actually Carnival and Royal Caribbean did that to St. Croix a few years back when the local government would not cowtow to their demand for total control of one of the STT dock expansions. They blamed crime on this island for their reason for pulling out (instead of the real financial stranglehold they wanted to place on STT.) Crime did NOT go down on STX with that pull-out, any more that it will on STT. When you have the loss of your economic base, crime goes up even more.

Historically, both the government and the cruise lines have hidden a lot of the STT crime from the press, but they have always highlighted the crime on STX.....part of the battle over control between the largest island (STX) and the government seat (STT.)

I don't know, but are you buying Beer on a balck market? or Vodka? or Whiskey? I haven't heard of a turf was lately to sell me Beer.

I, personally, would happily purchase marijuana if able to legally and pay the govt taxes for it.

Just like I purchase my guns, liquor and tobacco legally. I also purchase my vehicles, clothes, CD's and DVD's legally. Am I that much of an anomaly? I mean, I COULD get this stuff a lot cheaper - I must be such a fool!!!!

I don't get why anyone would want to legalize methamphetamines. As a former addict, I know what that stuff does. 16 years clean, and I wouldn't touch that stuff again ever - legal or not. I'm one of the lucky ones - I made it out alive.