I wonder if Obama would feel the same way if it were his wife and two young daughters being molested by one of these TSA agents. If he is so sure that these types of intrusive pat downs are necessary, let him bring them down to Dulles or National airport and have then submit to one of these enhanced pat downs. Obama is completely out of touch and does not care one bit about the average American citizen. I can not wait until 2012 when we can vote this incompetent, out of touch moron out of office. With the increased infringement on our liberties, the terrorists are winning without doing anything more than making threats and watching us buckle and surrender our liberties under the perceived pressure.

Here is a better option for you and to the problem. I recieved this in an e-mail and it sounds simple enough to me and painless to almost everyone.

Here's a solution to all the controversy over full-body scanners at
the airports:

All we need to do is develop a booth that you can step into that will
not X-ray you, but will detonate any explosive device you may have
hidden on or in your body. The explosion will be contained within the
sealed booth.

This would be a win-win for everyone. There would be none of this crap
about racial profiling and the device would eliminate long and
expensive trials.

This is so simple that it's brilliant. I can see it now: you're in
the airport terminal and you hear a muffled explosion. Shortly
thereafter an announcement comes over the PA system, "Attention
Standby passengers, we now have a seat available on flight number..."

A perfect solution!

Not frustrated, Mr. President. Outraged and then some.

Stop blindly rubber-stamping the dumbassed advice and decisions passed to you on paper.

We let people cross borders illegally - and even reward them for their wrongs via your interpretation of a "sense of fairness." And then molest American citizens without probable cause, who are simply buying a commodity to go visit their grandma in Boise.

WTF is the matter with this picture?

These highly unconstitutional and offensive personal molestations imposed on airline passengers are not only completely ineffective but they actually make flying more dangerous.

All one has to do is understand that intelligent profiling has been proven to be highly effective in ferreting out terrorists attempting to board aircraft and is done without the need for this obnoxious fondling and groping.

Consider that since 2001 there have been approximately 5 billion passengers flying to/from the U.S. and flying domestically. Then consider the number of bombing attempts of which there were only a couple but for arguments sake, I'll place the number at 5.

This means that 99.99999999% (yes, the number of decimal places are accurate) of all passengers are normal people going about their business. Because they absolutely will not institute a program of profiling due to some perception it would violate the rights of a very few, they put in place a program that violates the constitutional rights of everyone.

This type of program is not only unconstitutional but provides significant camouflage for any real threat because they can so easily get lost in the overwhelming crush of innocent passengers. The terrorists already have the capability of eluding these so-called security measures and without profiling, they will simply pass through mixed in with the regular passengers undetected. It' only a matter of time.

The level of incompetence exhibited by those who are "in charge" is alarming.

Astonishingly, there are some who think these measures actually make them safer. There's no accounting for the gullibility factor.

The profiling that you speak of, which the Israelis have used for years is just one of may layers of security used by them for many years, but it is not the only part. Their security also uses metal detectors as well personal questioning of random passengers. and full body pat downs if they feel it is warranted. Also remember that they need to secure a relatively small number of passengers as opposed to the number of flyer's in and out of the US so training enough qualified observers would never happen. I traveled to Israel 25 years ago and was subject to a full body search at the age of 15. It made sense then and in today's environment it also, unfortunately, makes sense. I would also wonder what your complaint would be if a random security person approched you and started asking you questions about your place of birth, city of residence as well as asking for your travel papers. I am sure you would say this also violated your rights. It is not the TSA's fault or the president fault that there are lunatics (Islamic and homegrown) who want to hurt our population, but it is their fault if it is allowed to happen.

Mr president , your first job when you got elected was to surround yourself with people whose love of country and skills, talent imagination an worthiness to be in those positions would assure that you could lead America forward, to new heights. I would have to say that you failed miserably, and that your entire administration is a collection of some of the least worthy, and least patriotic individuals ever to hold not only the existing positions but those you created to stuff more questionable people into these jobs. Al-quida knows precisely how we are looking for weapons now, and if one thing is certain, they have already figured out a work-around, as you continue to squander tax dollars on this already obsolete technology. Why don't you come down off your high horse and for once admit that you are a total failure. There are those in congress who could help you to limp through the next 2 years, then you can take your presidential pension and just go fade away.

Stu B 1.5

The term "intelligent profiling" includes the layers you speak of which is why it's referred thusly. Regarding the need to secure s relatively small number of passengers, Israel only has around a dozen airports. The U.S. has a much larger number of flying passengers but also a much larger number of airports to distribute them so profiling can work.

Yes, even "intelligent profiling" sometimes calls for more thorough interrogations and\or searches, but the point is that this is selective based on observation and other information. It does not subject everyone to a pointless and demeaning intrusion. Remember those decimal places.

bayllie, you fit my last sentence perfectly.

pat downs are frustrating, but necessary

No, Mr President, they're not necessary if you drop the PC crap and employ reasonable profiling techiques.

Benjamin Franklin warned "Those who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

What's bugging people, and bugging me (as always) is the Slippery Slope. That's why I don't like the Patriot Act, warrant-less wiretaps, etc. The right-wing Hawks argue about "gateways" to something else, like earmarks, but fail to see the gateway in these areas.

Other countries, like Israel, don't go to these extremes and yet have better, real security in comparison to the United States. We should study what they do, including their superior intellegence community. We also need to work harder at relationships with other countries -- like the Saudi information recently provided. Terrorism is global, and can't be addressed in a singular or simplistic way.

It was bad enough not being able to have fluids, having my nail file confiscated, etc. Now this? I don't want to fly anymore. Too bad the train system was dismantled. Too bad we can't benefit from modernization. We are going backward in many ways.

This coming from a person (president) who doesn't have to subject his family or himself to this molestation.

Again, our government is so far out of touch with the pheasants, they actually think we need them to keep us safe.

Now they want the FDA (aka Monsanto) to be in charge of all the organic and small farmers.

People, we are sheeple and if we don't stand up for our rights there will be no rights left to worry about.

@

Johan-1928805 - I would rather die free than be given a false sense of security from a government who can't even protect it's own citizens from illegals when they know where they are crossing our borders.

Also Johan, some people HAVE to travel as part of their jobs. These people will be felt up more in 2 weeks than they were on their honeymoon.

Its WRONG, it's unconstitutional and you should be outraged the rights of average citizens in THIS country are being treated this way. The fact you aren't tells me you are a liberal and think the government can do no wrong and we need more of government to govern everything we do in our lives.

Patrick-1112710

Maybe if president Bush listened to his intelligence we would not have this conversation today. He was told over and over that there is a plot to fly planes into building, that there are Middle Eastern men training to ONLY fly planes (no taking off or landing), etc etc etc. Mr. Bush continued his vacation -the longest one of all presidents. He continued to fish and golf and o remove the brush from his Texas ranch. He did not give a crap about our safety.

Now this president actually wants to makes sure there are safety measures to PREVENT a flying bomb and you see that as a bad thing?

Wet Willy, you wrote:

It does not subject everyone to a pointless and demeaning intrusion.

I remember a blonde lady on TV that was recruited by Al-Qaeda. She looked just like me - white and blond. So, yes, EVERYONE should be checked. Me included!

President Obama: So what you're saying is that this is the only way to do this.

TSA Goons: Yes sir. Our people aren't smart enough, so we have to rely on technology instead of intelligent observation and questioning during screening.

President Obama: Okie Dokie. So... what if someone blows up the security line and kills a few hundred people?

TSA Goons: Actually Mr. President, we're not in the business of protecting the public. We're trying to protect our infrastructure; planes and buildings are expensive... passengers we get for free.

Freakin' id1ots. "Molestation?" if these measures had been in place in September of 2001 our loved ones who perished would probably still be with us. No-one is forcing anyone to fly. Take the bus, dagnabbit!

bayllie,

Now this president actually wants to makes sure there are safety measures to PREVENT a flying bomb and you see that as a bad thing?

When it violates my 4th Amendment, and people like you think it's a great idea, the terrorists have won. My rights are my rights, granted by the Constitution. I won't give that up for a false sense of security.

And, I never said Bush did a good job with security either. I don't care for people trying to make a point by putting words in my mouth or preaching to me about something I never said.

So Bayllie, how many rights do we need to give up in order to be safe? 1, 2, 3, ALL?

Wet Willy,

Unless you tell me I am 100% safe, then I do not care about your decimal places. Your 99.99999 multiplied by thousands flights multiplied by millions of passengers is a HUGE possibility of a bomber getting through. When I am dead I won't have to worry about what you call "molestation" But I still want to come home to my family SAFELY.

Getting on the plane is not a privilege. I said this before: DON"T FLY and you won't have to be exposed to the molestation.

Prag,

Stop your "right wing" bullcrap, true patriot.

Just freakin stop.

Ok so you want to have a non-partisan no-name-throwing conversation?

defendents on this particular vine of the pat downs are LIBERALS

Guess not.

Actually Mark it probably went something more like this....

President Obama: So what you're saying is that this is the only way to do this?

TSA Goons: Yes sir. Well actually this is technology that we had already been investing in since the late 90's. We figured it was easier to deploy what we already had and use this as an excuse to introduce a product that would have been widely rejected before September 11th.

President Obama: Okie Dokie. So... what if someone refuses the body scan because you can't guarantee anonymity?

TSA Goons: Well Mr. President, we've decided that providing an alternative that is equally (if not more) invasive and more time consuming would discourange opting out of the scanner.

President Obama: What about creating technology that would detect chemicals and other explosive materials hidden on someone's person?

TSA Goons: That would require us to actually dedicate time, effort and money into making a more efficient solution. We would rather capitalize on what we've got now by making it mandatory.

Fear. The terrorists have beaten you, bayllie. Well and truly beaten you.

You are NEVER 100% safe. Ever. Deal with it, and stop demanding your fellow Americans willingly give over their Constitutional rights to attempt to secure your safety. You are not worth it.

Patrick-1112710,

Why is your right more important than my right to live? What makes you special? If you don't want to be checked do not fly. I want to drive drunk. I want to drive drunk. It's my right. Why do I have to comply? Why can't I speed - oh wait - because I have no choice, do I? Because they tell you that driving is a privilege not a right (sorry in my above post I was supposed to write "right" instead of privilege).

And sorry to tell you, terrorist usually do win in that sense. Terrorist do force us to change our ways. They always have and they always will.

PragmaticToAFault,

I'll bet you don't lock your doors at night, and you let your kids play in ghettos, and you don't look over your shoulder when walking by a questionable character in the middle of the night.

You have never changed the way you live because of past experiences? If you answered yes, you are full of crap!

Also, where in the Constitution does it say that you have the right to fly? Where in the Constitution say that your right is more important than mine? I have the right to be safe. You have the right not to be subjected to security BY chosing a different form of locomotion.

Lolly... you spent more time with your imagination cap on than I did.

I like old-pilots idea about the booth that detonates explosives.

I doubt if anyone would refuse to go into it unless they had a bomb on their person. And if they did, they wouldn't be allowed on the plane. Problem solved.

"Perhaps too many people have forgotten about the underwear bomber. It just takes one."

-Johan-1928805

So you'll be the first in line for the rectal exam after they try using the 'butt bomber'?

Using the last attack to justify the security precautions they are using is ridiculous. The technology that they are using is outdated, possibly dangerous, and won't keep us safe. Neither will feeling up grandmas and kids.

Flying may not be a right, but we are certainly within our rights to demand limits on government agencies. The TSA is a government agency and IS answerable to US. Airlines that want additional ridiculous precautions can demand those of the 3 or 4 fliers that choose to fly on their airlines rather than the others.

Meanwhile, in order to keep my job, I will be forced to fly on business trips - during those trips I'll be prodded and groped in order to get on the airline (because I don't believe that the FDA is a reasonably useful agency when it comes to judging consumer safety when there is lobbying involved so I will skip the XRAY machines. And I will certainly be looking for ways to avoid flying on any personal trips to keep my family out of this mess - we'll see how much the airlines are complaining after they see how much this affects their bottom lines.

Ask yourself why the Dutch purchased equiptment that's not only safer but limits the displays it takes to an outline that shows where the threat was detected - that equiptment being made in the United States . . . Can you say $$$ from lobbyists?

"I have the right to be safe."

-bayllie

Really? You have a 'right to be safe', but we don't have a right to fly? Since you bring up the constitution, can you show me where in that document it says that you have a right to be 100% safe?
If you want to be safe, then the same answer you're trying to pulp off on the rest of us applies to you. Don't fly.

Mr. President, why don't you put on a set of latex gloves and work DCA airport checkpoint for an hour or two, and explain by practicing to someone's 85 years old grandpa and 13 years old granddaughter about how you understand the frustration but necessity of endorsing this legalized sexual harrassment of the traveling public, that the first family is exempt from as you travel on AF One, Marine One, etc. This is a national disgrace, disgusting and unacceptable, period. Outraged from a long standing Democrat for 30+ years, voted for your party & contributed financially, but no longer has faith in you and your administration's leadership to restoring and reshaping America's future. CHANGE .... is coming

On a side note about this necessity, what measures do TSA or Homeland Security have in place at the airport's security checkpoint to stop a determined suicidal terrorist(s) to set off one or more (dirty CBRN or high explosive) bombs while in line for screening or the enhanced pat-downs? Terrorists with no plans for walking away can just as easily terrorize hundreds if not thousands of passengers and others inside the airport, and the consequences are just as deadly - without the plane itself ever leaving the gate, let alone being airborne.

Think about it for a moment .... okay, what's next, bend over & cough 3 times too if and should the body cavity check be necessary to protect the public - in the name of frustrating but necessary ....

Enough is enough !!!!

This is just more of the "change" he was talking about before the election. They rammed healthcare reform down America's throat and don't have to participate in that either. Do as we say, not as we do mentality. This surprises people?

I wonder who will be screaming when the airlines need a bailout if people DO stop flying...

People are slipping, it actually took 15 replies before the "it's Bush's fault" came out.

HonestNM, if you can't tell the difference pointing out a fact and partisan hackery, I can't help you and wouldn't dream of trying. There is no cure for willfully blind.

Bayllie, do you even know what the 4th Amendment says? At all?

Look it up. On the altar of YOUR safety, you DEMAND that everyone else sacrifice their rights protecting them from illegal search. This is illegal search, because there is NO probable cause to suspect every person boarding a plane is a potential bomber.

I have traveled down some dangerous streets, and some very dark alleys, but I would rather be dead than to be this stupid; I would rather be dead than to live in this kind of fear. I have stayed with you Mr. President; all the way till now, but I will not go down this dark alley with you...

According to the latest polls 4 out of 5 Americans are for the TSA security measures. Apparently, the anti-Obama crowd will pick on anything just to spew their hatred for the President.

Let it rest for once, will you?

@Esam - WHOSE polls are those? Using what scientific method? Because I can point you to another so called poll that says that 95% of the traveling public will look to use alternative travel methods due to the new security measures. Without a clear understanding of the method used to obtain the information, your "poll" means nothing.

I see people saying "I will do anything to be safe!"

People listen to yourself!

You are cowering in fear!

If you actually came face to face with a terrorist you would be on your knees weeping. The next thing you will be saying "Don't hurt me, I will convert to Islam!"

I am horrified, I thought the American people had more backbone than this.

I bet the Tea Party members would tear a terrorists face off!

Mr. President, I am outraged and reject your 'dictum' that current policy stand! As for the TSA's "radiate-grab-&-grope" policy...

I am asking that you, Mrs. Obama, Malia, & Sasha avail yourselves of the intrusive search and ask that it be televised as proof that you participated in this humiliating experience.

Finally, I am an Independent and switched to the Democratic party for the 2008 election. I will return to my 'Independent' status.

I will neither support you and your party in 2012 or in the future as this is morally wrong!

Mr. President, you've lost my vote in 2012 and I'm a life long registered Independent who has always voted Democratic and I'm 61 so that a lot of Democratic votes. And this attitude that the TSA can do whatever the f.ck they want and the people be damned is not helping anything. I also will never fly again and have told my employer the same. And guess what? You are my employer. I was investigated by the FBI for my job but I am considered a possible terrorist if I want to ride a plane. No thanks - you lose and what's even worse for you is that I would have voted for you in 2012. The behavior of the TSA has made me lose all respect for you since you are allowing it to continue. There are better ways than molesting people. Ask Isreal, ask anybody. It's evident the TSA has got it's head up it's you know what.

Teufelhunden, there's going to be an increase of 3% in the number of people flying during the Thanksgiving holiday this year as compared to last year.

Alternative travel methods my foot!

ohmyohmy09 The presidents FIRST job is to protect and defend the CONSTITUTION. if it is a violation of the constitution, potential safety is NOT justifiable to shred the constitution i.e. 4th amendment.

love it or leave it..I left. I said after Obama was elected that one of two things would happen. Either he would be a hero, prove many people wrong and be an incredible president, or he would fail worse than any other president and prove many people correct. Unfortunately there was and is no middle ground. I think we all know which way this has gone.

personally, i agree, let the clown, ooops i mean Nobama and family go thru the same pat down everyone else has to go thru. what better have them do it live, i want to see the faces they make getting groped, and the look on his face as he see's the same for his kids. if he cant show he's willing to take those same steps along with his own family by his side doing the same, he isnt worthy of making others do it, much less being the president of the US of A, not that he has shown us to this day since elected he deserved the job, or much less earned it in any form.

It's not just frustrating or irritating, it's humiliating. It's not necessary. Metal dectors and trained dogs is more effective, cheaper and less humiliatinig. If the citizens have to suffer such indignities then the same treatment must be given to all including government and business people flying on private planes. We're all equal. To seperate us into groups where one group is subject to the idignities and other groups are exempt is deplorable, if not unconstitutional. I imagine there will be lawsuits. Thank goodness I don't have to fly, and I won't.

TruePatriot -

Other countries, like Israel, don't go to these extremes and yet have better, real security in comparison to the United States.

Since Obama chose so many Israeli Americans as his advisors, it shouldn't be too surprising that Israeli airport security measures are being adopted here. This traveler ( http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/2010/11/israeli-airport-security/ ) mentions having to arrive at an Israeli airport 3 hours ahead of time to clear Israel security (which included "groping").

Of course these extreme security measures are necessary if ones country has a habit of killing people to take control of their resources, set up permanent bases or steal their land.

bayllie,

I see by your posts you are just baiting people for an argument. You are a master at it.

I suppose you could say you are a master-baiter.

Nobody is as willing to just give up their rights as fast as you are. My bet is you are from China and we all know misery loves company.

The President of the United States of America is not my father. I would rather take my chances with the terrorist than put up with the crap I have to just to fly somewhere. I won't do it, won't go anywhere I can't drive to now. Dread the day I find it necessary to fly somewhere. Whoever said that the terrorists won was right, they conquered our country and changed it into a giant bunch of people who actually think that we can be completely safe from the ill intent of the rest of the worlds' crazies and will give up as many personal rights (of mine as well as theirs) as politicians tell them to...as long as the President says it's 'necessary' well that's okay then. We're the definition of a paranoid militia group.

"One of the most frustrating aspects of this fight against terrorism is that it has created a whole security apparatus around us that causes huge inconvenience for all of us,” Obama said.

Except for him and his family!

No shock here. Obama has done nothing but prove himself to be just another asshat puppet for those that actually run the country. Just another reason to boot him in 2 years.

Want to make things better? Quit voting for the people they tell you to vote for.

Considering the TSA hasn't caught a single terrorist as of yet. Why do we need to lose our freedoms that so many have lost their lives for in this country?

Time to bring in dogs to walk the lines at the airports, and bring on the profilers!

Obama is so arrogant, he cannot admit defeat and will not change what is happening. He is out of touch with US citizens and doesn't really give a crap! If he looks like an elitist, and acts like an elitist, and smells like an elitist, then he is an idiot!

FROM A PREVIOUS POST:

"Is someone forcing you to fly?

Hate to break this to you OBAMA HATERS but this was actually tThe decision made by the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals. Citing threats of terrorism, the court ruled passengers give up all rights to be free of warrantless searches once a "passenger places hand luggage on a conveyor belt for inspection" or "passes though a magnetometer."

You have the right not to go to the airport."

HOW TRUE!

Obama isn't smart enough to figure out that it is time to put aside the "last attack" strategy and move on to prevent the next one. The way to do that is have Israel come take over training of TSA and learn what to look for and how to handle it once it's found.

Do your research on airports that have much higher security than in the USA. Isreal for instance, will not allow the machines in. They won't even detect certain liquids or other substances that will blow up a 747. Stop drinking the crap they're serving. THESE MACHINES ARE NOT NECESSARY - AT ALL. BUT MAKING MONEY FOR HIS FRIENDS APPARENTLY IS. 2012 ELECTION COME NOW!!!!!!!!!!!

Bayllie 1.7

I would like you to know I didn’t participate in the collapsing of your post. I would rather have your post read by all as it speaks volumes about you.

Necessary--No Way! They are using the excuse of the alQuida linked diaper bomber whose name was already on a watch list. Check the watch list you guys then there is probably cause for all this otherwise nonsensical and patently illegal searching of US citizens. Check all middle eastern and African (as in from Somalia or Yemen) men if you must take it a step further or those of other ethnicities whose names are on a watch list from our security agencies.

Even the FBI has to have probable cause just to check your car--let alone your very personal body parts.

Just say no. I mean just say "Hell NO!'

I went through the nudie scanner a couple of weeks ago at McCarren in Las Vegas (how appropriate) without even realizing what it was and without any warning of the dangers inherent in the excessive radiation. Certainly I was not given the option of "opting out." When I commented politely on it, I was told that they blurred out my face, so having the rest of me naked as a jay bird shouldn't be a problem. No?? Then why I be arrested if they go walking through the airport naked with a bag over my head--if ya know what I mean!

Israel does extensive profiling and they have had 0 airplane bombers. Let's learn from them and put all these humiliating practices in the junker. I for one am sick of PC garbage.

As one blogger said the other day, "Since the elephants did it! Don't screen the alligators."

It wasn't okay for Bush to rely on intelligence saying there were WMD in Saddam's possession and it is not okay for Obama to rely upon the intelligence of the TSA that this is the only way to do it.

I'm telling you right now if you want a civil war Mr. President this is the way to start it.

American's have simply had enough. The bombers have not come from the USA they have been coming in to the USA. And what about the one that tried to blow up Times Square? What you gonna do when they stop using the airplanes and start using small children on city streets to blow us up?

The terrorists are ROFLMAO and they know that the winning has just begun for them!

I am seriously considering moving to Canada or Australia where the masses are not driven into complacency by the media and the politicians. People there still have a head on their shoulders and the ability to think for themselves. Unlike the sheep here in Amercia who have decided it is just peachy keen to give up their forth amendment rights so they can fly in an airplane.

Hey Juno of course they haven't. They don't have the same number of flights to deal with so the probability is low. Besides they are too busy invading locally to become the target more widely yet. I am not sure any of us want the extreme police state environment the Israeli citizens need to put up with - that is the level of information gathering and sharing that goes into profiling.

Obama: TSA pat-downs frustrating but necessary

.........Says the numnut that doesn't have to have a male stranger put his hands on his balls.

another option is not flying. if everyone stopped flying they would have more incentive to "refine their methods" to keep people safe. once revenues for the airlines drop like wall street there will be all #@$% to pay in washingtonm, dc.

he feels our pain; what a great guy.....why don't we approach this intelligently and look for people who are out of place, out of sorts, giving off body language and verbiage that would indicate they were hiding something. Our govt sucks. So does Obama and the rest of the a$$holes that impede our progress in closing the border and profiling the real threats to our lives. Aren't all of you tired of this procrastination on thier part. WE HAVE NO LEADERSHIP OR REVERENCE FOR OUR CULTURE. Just a bunch of vote pandering self centered egotistical,,,,well you know what I mean

I attribute these TSA disasters to the general dumbing down of America. Either the federal government (TSA) refuses to train its employees adequately, or these TSA employees are just totally dumber than @!$%# without any common sense. Which one is it? Probably a little of both. Yes?

As to our "fearless" leader, Barack Hussein Obama, it was his fellow lefty Michael Moore who demanded this week that Obama "take off his tutu now" and the other lefto James Carville who stated, also this week, that if Hillary gave Obama one of her balls, they would have two balls between them. lol. Refer to my first sentence! They elected him in the first place. Unqualified.

People whine about it but if this was not being done and something happened you would blame Obama for not doing enough, Damned if he does and Damned if he don't, people should stop their whining and just be glad that you are a little safer.

old-pilot: but who is developing such a device? I guess that we'll wait for the Chinese to do it for us. Or do it to us.

JS in SD: I'm not a TSA employee, but, for the record, I do not intend to molest Mrs. Obama. You can count on that.

Oh, poor Obama! When are you people going to give that up? He wanted to be President without understanding the total responsibility involved with assuming such a position, and now he is President. At the beginning, I wasn't a Bush II fan, but I think that he learned fast. Maybe there's still hope for Obama, but he has a long way to go. It's not just grand tours of Asia and Europe, making endless (and meaningless) campaign speeches and meeting with celebrities and pro sports teams. The office of the Presidency is much, much more than that. Maybe he'll learn eventually. In the meantime, God help us all. Poor Obama my ass!

Way to go Obama…bow down to muslim leaders and let the American people get groped at the airport.

Muslims put explosives into body cavities, so what is next?

Racial profiling? BRING IT!!!

Not PC…TFB!!

If enough people stop flying, the government will miraculously find a less invasive solution. Do your patriotic duty to protect our rights and our Constitution. Each and every American needs to make a decision now to not fly. If you don't believe your country and your Constitution is worth some inconvenience then you deserve to live in a police state.

Jesus people get a clue. First do you think they enjoy constantly searching people a hundred times a day? Its something that they need to do, plain and simple. Do you honestly think that employees do not go through extensive background checks? Oh well no, because I said they dont so they dont. Molestation, pedophiles? Really people? Oh and the ever popular uneducated ones that get hired. I know people that have their bachelors, masters and some with juris docotorates in law. Its really interesting that the people that make these posts do not reread their post for grammatical errors and misspellings. way to go guys! Everyone that verbally bashes our government and our leaders, why dont you guys try it? Blame Obama, blame Bush. Instead of complaining about it, try doing it from the inside and not the outside looking in.

Group--there already is a movement afoot not to use TSA methods. The airline providers and airports can opt out of TSA and use their own security personnel.

So, ummmm, why aren't you insisting that the airline carrier do something about this? The government is doing something--and they are very limited on what they can and cannot do in terms of profiling because of specific rulings (and, also, because Al Qaeda has already started using American citizens who are blonde-haired and blue-eyed). Seriously, if you were in the government and knew that explosives were being hidden in increasingly private spots, you wouldn't have much option either.

But, the airlines have a lot of options. What about the customers speaking directly to the airlines and airports in no uncertain terms? Free enterprise and all that, you know?

Seriously--when you have such an easy out as just not flying (for those who can avoid it), or refusing to go through the scanner and just piling up in lines forcing the TSA to examine every . . . single . . . person . . . one . . . at . . . a . . . time, or complaining to the airlines--why not just do that rather than expect the president to do it for you? He isn't your nanny, this is what he has to do to ensure your safety given the limitations on his office, and you have the ability to act on your own.

The airlines will act if they cannot get warm bodies on their planes because of the TSA. Just go straight for the responsible parties--and, no, that's not Obama. You let Bush put up Homeland Security and they empowered the TSA and now Obama has very little option other than to let it run (unless you want all that dismantled, which I am quite sure you would scream about if it were).

Personally, I think this whole thing is funny. When I was one of the people having my mail opened and my phone bugged because I am the rare Democrat in a state with nearly all Republicans, I was told to get over it because, hey, we're at war. But, now that there is a policy in place that makes life just as difficult for Republicans as it was for Democrats under Bush--now we're all up in arms.

Very amusing--welcome to the club!

“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”

Ben Franklin

In God We Trust

Why is Obama always in some other country? I'm not an isolationist, but doesn't he like it here? Is he afraid of us? He should be!

Flying is a right. The common law right to travel predates the constitution, and is incorporated in the all other rights mentioned in the 10th amendment. Not convinced? How about 49 US Code-Section 40103 (2) "A citizen of the United States has a public right of transit through the navigable airspace." That's the law.

bean@home: Boo hoo for you! Can you even begin to know what it's like to be a registered Republican in a small, leftist, elitist, "know-it-all" Ivy League town in which the majority of the population is directly on Obama's payroll? You have me in tears. Get over it!

This is the same TSA that Bush's DHS set up.

The objective is to prevent it from becoming professional by not allowing it to unionize.

The objective is to keep wages low, just about minimum wage if possible.

The result is high turnover, poor attitude, ignoring training and one screw-up after another.

The result is passengers are treated like cattle, not like persons.

I live in New Jersey and Newark International Airport is very well know and used alot, very big airport, very busy.

Two of the Twin Towers terrorists flew from here. I don't mind the scanners or the x-rays as long as it is effective and saves lives!

"But at this point, TSA in consultation with counterterrorism experts have indicated to me that the procedures that they have been putting in place are the only ones right now that they consider to be effective against the kind of threat that we saw in the Christmas Day bombing."

Not really. Here is information on what Israel does, and they have the record that backs it up;

"According to Isaac Yeffet, the former security chief for El Al Israel Airlines, the United States should adopt El Al’s security approach of ensuring that every passenger is interviewed by a well-trained agent before check-in, a move that involves profiling passengers, which he said is not discriminatory.

El Al is considered by most security analysts as the most secure airline in the world because of its track-record in deterring hijackings and terror plots. The airline has been free of terrorist attacks for about 30 years and it has experienced only one hijacking in its history. Global Traveler magazine has named El Al as number one in its Best Airline for Security for the last three years in a row."

Why the fear of scrutinizing REAL potential terrorists more intensely than a 3 year old child or a 90 year old woman from Sweden? "Political correctness" on this issue is nonsense.

Daymn, I'm in trouble. I have a battery pack implanted in my rump, 2 wires running up my spine to my neck, and a neural stimulator fused to nerves in my neck. They'll have to take me apart!

Good thing I don't fly much.

Back on topic. Someone mentioned hiding explosives in body cavities. I REALLY like old pilot's idea more and more!

Problem solved....everyone show up at the airport in a Burka...they dont search muslim women below the neck according to CAIR!

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/cair-tsa-can-only-pat-down-muslim-women%E2%80%99s-head-neck/

President and his Family need to go throught this and see how they feel. Mr President let your wife get the royal treatment that we get at the Airports and you get checked too. You are not above the standard are You Oh Maybe you are. You do not have to follow the law just because you think your the president. I bet you get rushed right through all Of this. Stand up Like a Real man and not a Mouse Yea a Mouse No a Rat Yea Your a RAT.

A number of you posters are saying, "just don't fly." With a real unemployment rate of over 20% (50% for young black men) all we need is to all quit or jobs that require a lot of travel.

Now let's be realistic--for most of us (including me) travel is necessary and there simply isn't time between meetings in NY and meetings in Las Vegas to take a train ride.

I do take the train from NY to DC whenever that is the line up of activities. I note with interest there is NO security at all on the trains. That makes sense because?????????????? Let's see, trains and buses have been the victims of choice most recently in London and Spain to mention a couple and there have been others.

I shouldn't have mentioned it because Obama's ever vigilent email police will now probably ruin my only peaceful and pleasant trips on the East Coast by train (faster than flying when you count the hassle factor).

Actually I have been quite incredulous that I can buy a train ticket from a comuterized kiosk either at Penn Station or Grand Central but just punching in my preferred time, pull the ticket and proceed directly to the train where I just get on, sit back and enjoy the ride.

Why all this buzz on the planes--the ferrys in Washington State have been under surveilance (proven connections to AlQuida) for a long time. No security at all. We are always trying to stop the attack they did last week or last year! How about getting some intelligence gathering going--I know that is hard since Obama has decimated our FBI and CIA. Then we would know ahead who is planning what and simply pick them up prior to acting. This has to be about something besides threats to airplanes. It is some kind of diabolical control factor.

I know our FBI has stopped many would be 9/11's but there is no need to insult my 93 year old mother by probing between her legs and pummeling her breasts. She is an alert and attractive woman and the opposite of any profile possible--whiter than white with blue eyes. Stop the madness.

As an earlier poster stated, "When the elephants do the crime don't screen the Alligators!" That's my new mantra so thanks to whomever posted it here.

Once again this arrogant twit is ignoring the American people and shoving tyranny down our throats.

mrjones-2695192

I know people that have their bachelors, masters and some with juris docotorates in law. Its really interesting that the people that make these posts do not reread their post for grammatical errors and misspellings. way to go guys!

1. Knowing someone educated doesn't make you smarter.

2. You missed an apostrophe in "it's" and the "W" in your last sentence is not capitalized. The word "docotorates" is spelled wrong.

3. Check your own spelling before teasing others for theirs.

4. I laughed when I read your post.

Ding Dong - BIG BROTHER has commanded the citizens to surrender ALL THEIR RIGHTS, AND, THEY HAVE!

Farenheit 451 and George Orwell 1984 have come to reality!

President Obama: come with us, the American People. We know what is best for our own mental and physical health. You do not.

Forcing radiation upon Cancer patients, survivors is the cruelest thing you could demand, or having a pat down when they are wearing personal apparatuses for their survival.. Humiliation of an American Citizen. Young children, the elderly, young women, and men, touching and molesting. In real life this is a crime. This sounds very much like a Leader of a Country that led the March across Europe in the 1930's doing experiments on human beings..

Who are the TSA Agents?. What kind of advanced schooling do they have. Do they have med. degrees, sociology, or pyschology degrees; or they people looking for work, off the streets. You say their backgrounds are checked out. Where's the proof. Where are the papers? Everything is hidden.

One day a TSA agent will be a Terrorist; yes, and all the safety measures put in place will not prevent another 9/11; or Shoebomber. It will happen, even though all these ridiculous measures are taken, humiliating, and denegrating people as they do in Communist countries. This is no different.

What kind of person are you? Do you think about why the American public is so upset about the way you run Homeland Security, and the TSA Agency?

Yes, I know, going to Europe and Asia is much more important than taking care of the American woes.

When an elected leader doesn't listen, that means he doesn't care.

It is a Teachable moment for you. Listen and react with kindness and sensitivity toward your fellow man. The screenings are not proper. Find another way.

It will happen again. Then what kind of protection will you take for our own good?

To all you dummies out there who think the real threat to America are terrorists from the Middle East or from any other country you are sadly mistaken. All this adds up…and it is quite a twisted tail. The right are always behind this and will be, until we can dismantle the Republican party, they will always be the ones doing this and they will always be the true enemy of America and its people.

I know this is strong medicine so brace yourself.

They think we are not paying attention. So let me run it down for you…Nixon was the first…at least the first to really embrace fascism… and…I would almost go out on a limb and say that I bet for a matter of a fact he had something to do with the Kennedie's deaths, MLK, Malcom X and Jimmy Hoffa. If you don't believe that you are completely blind. A large part of the republican party voted against ending segregation in the early 60's. So they assassinated JFK…got Johnson to go to Vietnam killed Robert when he decided he was going to run and offed a MLK and Malcom for most likely the same thing…got John Kerry (who is a member of the exclusive Skull and Bones society at Yale, who I imagine are behind a lot of things) and Jane Fonda to help paint a dim light on it maybe after Nixon won…got Nixon in office to reverse segregation…when he didn't they got rid of him. And segregation is just a tool of theirs…it is called divide and conquer and it is a very basic political tool. They don't want us to know what they are really trying to do…turn us all into slaves. And if you think Nixon was a good president just remember under him The draft was in effect and when he was in office more than 60,000 of our sons and daughters were killed in Vietnam in about a two year radius, about 50,000 in one year alone.

Now let's skip ahead a little bit…the only reason we ever got involved in the middle east is because of oil…namely a massive field located in Iraq…there is a scientific name for it…I am not sure what it is. They have been after it since the early 70's. The Bush's are loyal to oil…they are Texas oil men…and they will do anything to get it. Remember Ross Pero? (I could care less to spell it right) He said he would be president for free. Right during Bush's 1st term when they first started fooling around with the war in gulf. Why did he want to run for free? Because he was an oil man!!!!

Now let's skip ahead some more…Ever heard of Skull and Bones society? Well it is a secret society at Yale or one of those ultra rich colleges in which the members engage in an activity called crooking…known members? George W. Bush and John Kerry. Here is another fact, the day before 911 Donald Rumsfeld (I don't care about spelling) anounced that 2.3 trillion had come up missing from the Pentagon a day later the investigating offices were blown to kingdom come.

Now let's leap way ahead to earlier this year. Obama's first term has been very impressive, this guy doesn't play. However he has had his share of mistakes, all presidents have them. Earlier this year he opened up various American coastal waters for oil drilling. They day after he made the announcement…boom!!!!…There goes Deep Water Horizon. Guess who laid the cement for the rig!!!???? Just guess…I dare ya…Haliburton…Dick Cheney's company.

Now that brings me to our country's current situation…The Republicans pulled out all stops during the election and spent some major bucks doing so…But they fell short…putting the country at a gridlock…Our Economy is about to go nuts…because of these massive programs Barack has set into motion. The right knows this…so now they need a really nasty act of violence…possibly a terrorist on a plane or whatever…something exploding…planes crashing into buildings whatever…they have got to pull this president's numbers down and wag the dog. And if you think they are not beyond using Xi to hire actual terrorist to do so think again. Notice the folks slamming security are your Becks and Limbaughs. They are well aware of what the right intends to do. Matter of fact right before the election the whole party met Blackwater's or now XI's headquarters.

Only problem…Obama is all over them and there is no way he is about to loosen up security.

Earlier this week GM rang the bells at Wall Street and that is a good thing. So two years ago they were on the verge of financial disaster. Two years later they are ringing the NYSE bells!!! Yea, that stimulus didn't work. Hold onto your seats everyone, America is about to blast off.

Increased airport security is a good thing!!!!

And don't you worry repubs…in 2012 I am going to put on an ironed shirt and chase the devil out this earth!!!!

Great idea. Fondle the flying public while making excuses not to kill terrorists. Mr. Obama is confused. The American flying public is only a threat to his re election. We are his true enemy. He is trying to get all of the world to love us and leave us alone by demonstrating how we frisk Grandma and ignore the real threats.

They are killing the terrorist. Did you see the article about them finally sending American Tanks to Afghanistan. Seems like they should have done that 10 years ago!

"One of the most frustrating aspects of this fight against terrorism is that it has created a whole security apparatus around us that causes huge inconvenience for all of us,” Obama said.

Mr. President this proves you are truly an idiot and a fool. The fight against terrorism has not created anything. The "Terrorists" who wish to harm America have created this system. These agencies are working, with limited resources and restrictive equipment, to protect the traveling public. They must assure that a bomb strapped to a desperate and despicable person is not on an airplane. We do wish they would do a bit better with cargo.

When will this President get it right...We are not our own enemy. Those who profess Jihad and wish to harm Americans and other Westerners in the name of a bastardized perception of Islam are the enemy.

It is not the TSA...It is not the FAA...It is not the Patriot Act. It is the fact that very bad people will do the unthinkable and blow innocent people up.

I personally like the above post, 1.2, where travelers go into a booth and if they are carrying explosives they detonate. No harm to people who just want to go from point A to point B.

But then the far left of center would probably call this cruel and unusual. After all aren't we supposed to give the criminal element an edge over justice.(sacrasm)

If G.W. Bush had heard the voices of the millions across the world prior to the pre-emptive strike and approach the 911 tragedy/crisis with greater diplomacy, we would NOT be living in this mess. B Obama is unfairly blamed for a situation he was left to manage - not created! I would be mad myself having to go through all this hassle. But, I neither want to be blown up to bits in the air. The real problem, as I perceive, is the VERY disgusting TSA personnel who do these screening/pat-downs. We need more respectable type people doing the work - not freaks and nuts and junkie looking craps.

JETAIR...Shall we really revisit history? If Clinton had done is job and eliminated Bin Laden when he had the chance 9/11 might not have happened? If Clinton had used the diplomatic tools available to him then he could have better managed to unrest of the ME.

B Obama ran, got elected and was inaugurated to do a job. The only great mysteries of what that job entails is the manner in which he would choose to execute the office of President of the United States. If he begrudges the job he should step down. If he cannot assume responsibility for the attacks on his watch he should step down. If he feels that he has no path forward to protect and defend the people of the United States from enemy attack he should make damn sure that his puppet masters on his advisory team can.

To bayllie.....As you're sitting there in your 1st Class seat on the plane feeling all safe and secure because everyone was scanned and rubbed down to your satifaction....well, I would just love to see the look on your face as the Imam that is sitting next to you that shoved a bomb up his butt explodes and sends your saftey theory up in smoke..... It is a dangerous world. Living in fear is what they want.

I think of the folks in London during the Blitzkreig, shaking their fists at the Nazi Bombers that flew overhead, unleashing their devastation. Proud, defiant....Churchill said it was their finest hour.....

Mike in Del Ray....first of all the Imam is not going to blow himself up. He is going to recruit some devout addle minded follower to do it and in all likely hood they will be flying coach. Of course this will also disrupt those passengers in First and Business.

TSA personnel are there to do a job. Could they do that job discretely? Well yes. Could they do that job with consideration of their passengers? Of course. Could they actually profile people who would shove a bomb up their butt? I think they can and should.

obama is an idiot tyrant.

when will we stop??

are you going to think its ok when they are fondling our childrens privates???

when is this madness going to end???

JETAIR

If G.W. Bush had heard the voices of the millions across the world prior to the pre-emptive strike and approach the 911 tragedy/crisis with greater diplomacy, we would NOT be living in this mess.

tell ya what.... you go 1st, or show us there ever was hope for diplomacy after the twins were dropped you must have been how old? 6... maybe 5 when this happend, if that? judging by this and other posts you commented on, i am guessing today still 5 yrs old....

The scary thing with all this security measures is that they do little to stop those coming from other countries. This country, its politicans , have no problem allowing illegals to flow through our borders with drugs..what happens when these "drugs" become bombs ? HAve to wonder who "pats" them down ? OH yea, they can go to the hospitals if they get hurt or "abused" and pass on the cost to us.

One pundit said and I agree that BO continually comes down on the wrong side of every issue. The public wants one thing and he another. Does he really think he's a king?

Passengers that don't want to go through the scanner or a physical pat down should take the bus, boat, train or automobile to reach their destination, otherwise they should come up with a more effective security plan which doesn't involve scanning and physical touching and submit it to Homeland Security at the address listed below. Otherwise STFU. ;-)

http://www.dhs.gov/xutil/contactus.shtm

Instead of "spitting to the wind" complaints about the use of scanners or physical pat downs by TSA employees how about Newsviner's complain directly to TSA at the address below. Otherwise STFU!!!!!

https://contact.tsa.dhs.gov/DynaForm.aspx?FormID=10

President Obama is being tone-deaf on this one. He is, and believe me when I say that almost all government officials are, above the fray in this one. Just wait until he is a private citizen and his and Michelle's junk is touched in this way (OK, junk is masculine, perhaps private parts).

For now, does anyone know where we can get those neat little badges that tell us when we have reached the OD level on radiation?

Why do Tea Partiers/Republicans have to insult the President and the first lady with the filthy language of moron rubes?? Complain directly to TSA and Homeland Security at the websites listed in #1.95 and #1.96 or STFU.

I agree Dtruth. I hope that my post was not considered derogatory of the Pres and his wife, as I support him almost completely and always have. That being said, he is insulated. Remember that speech after the regressives gained control in the house where he said he had to get out of the White House and into the community more? Well, after he gets the Afghanistan thing done in Portugal, he needs to cruise some of America. Can he borrow that Fire Pelosi Bus, repaint it with "What's Up, America?" Oh, and fire all of the White House Staff that had anything to do with the Bushies. Fire all the attorneys that are Republicans. After all, Bush did it and nothing happened to him. So use the executive powers to clean house and re-establish some contact with us.

I would be ok with the body scanners when and only when the following circumstances are met:

1. They must be 100% radiation free. Until the technology comes about that allows the same result without using any more radiation than we get from say the sun, you can't subject the public to this.

2. Computer software should be determining the "aberrations" and flagging people as needing to be reviewed by a human. That subsequent review should be automatically be cropped to the area determined by the software algorithm to be an aberration. The aberrations create “Reasonable Suspicion / Probable Cause” and allow “search”. Until reasonable suspicion is met it is completely unconstitutional to infringe on my right to privacy.

Until this happens, I don’t care how much public safety is threatened; You can’t go down the road of “Guilty until proven innocent”, without providing the grease for the slippery slope that takes us to thought police, martial law, book burning, and other forms of enslavement and control by a big brother government. All these things are tools that can and will be abused in the future, and the only way to prevent their abuse to remember the principals on which this country was founded, arguably the chief one being Liberty:

lib·er·ty

noun \ˈli-bər-tē\

1 : the quality or state of being free: a : the power to do as one pleases b : freedom from physical restraint c : freedom from arbitrary or despotic control d : the positive enjoyment of various social, political, or economic rights and privileges e : the power of choice

Our country's founders cherished liberty, not democracy. ~Ron Paul

We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. ~Thomas Jefferson

Fourscore and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. ~Abraham Lincoln

Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty. ~John F. Kennedy

Liberty cannot be preserved without general knowledge among the people. ~John Adams

Liberty has never come from Government. Liberty has always come from the subjects of it. The history of liberty is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it. ~Woodrow Wilson

Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude. ~Alexis de Tocqueville

Give me liberty or give me death. ~Patrick Henry

Please write Congress to let them know how you feel!

To write your Member of the U.S. House of Representatives, please visit: https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml
To write your U.S. Senator, please visit:
http://senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

Watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-N5adYM7Kw&feature=player_embedded#!

At least someone is speaking up for our Liberties.

We needn't STFU. These blogs are for stating our opinions and thoughts about the topics posted. Sometimes, folks do stray far from the topic but most of the time it's related. If you can't deal with what's on the blog, don't get on it and sleep tight, I sure do. Secondly, how we travel is our decision is up to us. We'll take the bus. You walk.

SoS Hilary Clinton on the talk circuit:

Would she submit to a pat-down? "Not if I could avoid it," Clinton says. "No. I mean, who would?"

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/11/21/clinton-tsa-try-make-airport-screening-intrusive/#ixzz15w5eFB8Y

San Diego: man arrested for stripping down to his underwear. He was told to put his clothes back on so he could be patted down properly. LOL

HS is saying there is no other way. Profiling and trained dogs are a couple of ways. If the dogs react, go to these measures... hopefully without enough time for the terrorist to decide to just blow himself up on the spot. Old Pilot has a good idea tho I don't know how much is involved in building something to contain an explosion.

I mentioned the use of dogs on another blog. If the dog alerts, there's you PC for the pat down. It'd be so much easier.

Reread and comprehend my post. I did not tell anyone how to travel. But if you decide to travel by Airplane be prepared for the scan or pat down. I prefer ALL means of transportation and don't mind the scan or pat down by TSA at the airports. My safety is #1 priority to me.

dtruth

so then you wont mind a man feeling up the privates of your son???

or a woman fondling the breasts of your preteen girl???

wow.

I WAS a premiere frequent flier. The hell with it. I'll use that money and buy a new vehicle. I'm turning in my miles to the families of wounded troops.

When people decide another mode of transportation is their preference the airlines will be scrambling for customers. Just a decrease of 2% will set them into bankruptcy. The US is always a day late and a dollar short,closing the barn door after the horse is loose. They've done it again. I'm an American and I'm not going to live in fear or subject myself to a moronic invasion of privacy.

The terrorists said they will get us by a thousand cuts. Call it the box cutter syndrome. First it's nail files, then removal of shoes, now its panty grabbers and scanners. What's next prisoner cavity searches?

If the burka babes and habibe hibinator Muslims are exempt then it's the rest of us that are being profiled and bullied into submission. PC is political crap. Do what the Israelis do, it works. Hire returning troops who are keyed into what to look for and train them in further techniques. What we have now is a bunch of flunkies hired by flunkies with the chief flunkies in charge. Napolitano, Holder and Obama are a bad joke. They can't prevent illegal aliens from entering, they want to give them rights which we pay for, and they oppose AZ laws, and treat over 99.99% of American citizens who fly like suspected criminals. It's contrived lunacy.

To those delusional souls who think giving up freedom for safety is the way to go ... by all all means, YOU go for the governments group grope farce.

"and since alot, of you, voted for republicans, I feel, a need to continue, the pat downs of your self, and your children to, punish you, for voting, the way you did, earlier this, month". "We will feel, your boobs, your junk, and, make you, like it". "Next time, you will vote for, the one, me, I am GOD". "Don't you forget it". "Soon I will be in charge, of, the entire world". "Thank, you".

(turn the teleprompter off- someone)

Bayllie 1.19

Wow. Talk about twisted logic. I describe how in detail how infinitesimally small the numbers of terrorists attempting to board aircraft relative to the numbers of passengers and you (in your own warped mind) twist this around to conclude there is some HUGE possibility of a bomber getting through. Well, you’re correct in that as long as there’s this mass groping going on, a bomber does indeed have a better chance of getting through. After all, he doesn’t have to concern himself with being detected by intelligent profiling.

So getting on a plane is not a privilege, eh? Others have said getting on a plane is indeed a privilege. Which is it?

Regarding the groping and fondling, I think you look forward to it. Perhaps that's your idea of a relationship.

Its time to quit flying and drive where you need to go in the US. I'll rent a car before I fly now. I won't fly if they insist on full body scans or cavity searches. I am not a criminal --- what happened to probable cause for searches -- a constitutional guarantee. This is police state crap -- they are not going to be feeling my nuts. I say nuts to this. If enough of us start driving instead then the airlines will put the pressure on to stop these NAZI tactics.

Here's the TSA terrorizing a small crying boy who was made to remove his shirt when he was so frightened, he couldn't hold up his arms.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSQTz1bccL4&feature=player_embedded

This is all about control. This machines unsafe and untested. The machines and gropings are illegal and most importantly IMMORAL.

From an engineer's perspective who's researched the available data, whole body mass was used to calculate radiation exposure, not skin surface, and, there is no available testing data.

Flying is done safely and has been done safely without any of this for GSA and charter passengers, well, forever. They don't give up their constitutional rights to fly, so why do commercial passengers need to either.

And Groping - ILLEGAL and IMMORAL not any way to paint this as acceptable.

As an aside, on my last groping, I noticed that 60% of the people chosen for screenings were large breasted women. Since when have large breasted women been a security threat. If so, half of the women in Orange County would be in prison.

Why was this post collapsed?

No kidding, why was this collapsed?

Tyler, can you restore this, please?

If not, can you at least tell us why?

It was collapsed --------- because it is all about control.

nico-383340

he feels our pain; what a great guy...WE HAVE NO LEADERSHIP OR REVERENCE FOR OUR CULTURE

Culture? There's more culture in a cup of yogurt than in your entire crooked party.

What a nation of whiners the USA has become! Don't touch me I'm sensitive!

It is the new world folks accept it or drive, you have the choice, whiners!

spg64, I will remember that the next time I drive to England. Grow a brain.

spg,

It's a matter of principle, and people like you who roll over when their rights are being violated guarantee the continued erosion of our freedoms.

"Those who would sacrifice liberty for a brief moment of safety deserve neither."

What's next, spg? So quick to void the 4th amendment to the Consitution, aren't you. Why, to avoid profiling to actually establish probable cause? You are supporting the notion of guilty until proven innocent.

Because that's what this is about. Treating the ENTIRE population of the United States of America like criminals, because panty-waist liberals won't tolerate the truth.

Nevermind the fact that our stupid government is reactionary as opposed to pro-active. What will happen when the next plane is blown up via anal cavity? Is that really where you want to go?

The terrorists have well and truly won.

No roll the airline safety procedures back to what they were in 2001. Americans are not wimps. What do you think would have happened if the passengers in the planes that crashed on 9/11 had foreknowledge of what was going to happen? Remember flight 93? I think the American people would dismember any idiot that tried to high jack an airplane with a box cutter.

I think the Taliban is fixing to realize The United States has not been taking the war in Afghanistan seriously. They are fixing to be staring down the barrel of tanks. If they have access to c4 they are going to be trying to use it to get the Tank out of their back yard not piddling around with some inept kid trying to stuff it in his shorts.

These new measures make the US Citizens look like sniveling children if they put up with it.

To which I would add, this is just another part of POTUSs "transformation" project.

Make flying enough of a pain in the arse, and he can make a stronger case for his "high speed rail" bullcrap.

Atlas is shrugging, as we speak.

but want we have to have the same type of security for the high speed rail too?

No, that's the irony of this bullcrap that some people don't get.

ALL the attention on the airlines, with some lemmings willingly going along with whatever Daddy Government says is "for their own good"....meanwhile....

For $2.25, anyone - or a dozen dozen anyones - could get on any subway in NYC, wearing a suicide vest and blow half the city to kingdom come. Hell, they wouldn't even have to wear a vest, just drag the bomb behind them in a wheeled suitcase. Either way they get their virgins - and NO ONE is going to look at them twice. The same is true for ALL existing rail - there IS NO security. The same is also true for bridges, tunnels, subway systems, etc etc etc etc.

We're ONLY freaking out about airplanes because they've been used before. Again, reactionary.

Yea, maybe if POTUS gets his way on "high speed rail" there might be security. But since he WANTS rail to be the future and not the past that it is, it will be much less of a pain in the arse.

Prag' How right you are. I would love to play poker with this pres or any of his loser goon buddies. I'd take my winnings and buy a round for the vine! Alquida is changing their plans as we speak. Our security is more publicized than Mickey Mouse holding a Coke! Why not just create a free school for Arab pilots for Christ's sake? The TSA are useless. The problem with this low end administration is they come up with some retarded way to fix a problem which obviously needs fixing, and then they act like it is the only solution.

PROFILE, it works, get over it...It works, It WORKS

Did Richard Reid look like the "normal" profile of a terrorist?

Yes, he was sweating so much the explosives would not cook off

Reid's (shoe bomber) profile should have brought additional screening, yes. Highschool dropout with a criminal record, mulitple aliases, member of al-Masri's mosque in London - yes, they should ALL be tracked. Do you need me to go on?

Slumlord, are you thinking of Abdulmutaleb the underwear bomber? And yes, his profile would have led to enhanced screening as well. His FATHER had warned that his son was becoming radicalized, ffs.

When will we stop pussyfooting around with political correct bullcrap, hmmm?

Maksim,

Those who can't identify the lowest common denominator shouldn't be calling others stupid

PragmaticToAFault,

I wish I could vote for several of your posts twice; 2:14 is one such.

*sigh*

And ... Atlas might already have left the building and gone down the road.

Gee Doug, the article said the underwear bomber was in Detroit. The last I knew, Detroit was in the US, somewhere in Michigan.

The flight left from Amsterdam, bound for Detroit and the bomb he burned his junk with was intended to explode above Detroit.

I just love people who act all smart, when they are so blatantly wrong.

I just want to know why Detroit of all places??

so, the muslim women can give themselves the pat down...

Nobama the Clown says we need this to keep us safe, not he or his family having to go thru the same treatment as regular people,(better than us as he put it in lamens terms)...

Even tho all recent attacks have originated from other countries than the US since 9/11.... the US is under the thumb of the new style of perverts...

a terroist could cram the crap, enough to bring down a jet up his/her a$$, go thru a pat down, and still pass security...

but this is what we need to keep us safe? i dont buy it, and niether should anyone else. next it will be a cavity search if you refuse a x-ray, unless your muslim, then pass right on thru. The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself is over i guess..... now we just have to fear the TSA, and the Nobama Admin.

Prag, the easiest way in to our country is the nearly non-secured ports and the tens of thousands of containers that make their way across the bridges, tunnels and metropolitan areas of this great country. The technique used in the printer cartridge was a test, and it passed. A cell phone with an alarm attached to explosives proved to get through all checkpoints without detection.

Get real dude, or gal or what ever, since you do not have the guts to spell out your name, I guess you do not have the guts to fly either. When I fly I want to be sure all safety precautions have been taken. I do not have wings, do you? Get off of this GOP downing the President crap. It is been played out.

Stupid a** Janet Napolitono has to justify her job as Sect. of Homeland Security. Worse choice for the job. She was picked for her liberal views.

This is EXACTLY the question all the idiots need to ask themselves that say it isnt a bid deal.

We are being groped because something happened ELSEWHERE... NOT here and if it did happen here... I rather read about people dieing than my kids being fondled by walmart drop outs. You will eventually be reading about tsa workers coming under harm. If Obama isnt going to do anything about this. The United States Citizens will.

Bad move Obama, you have now moved onto Bush levels of stupidity

People when are you going to realize that because of security procedures we caught him HERE. Everyone talks about our rights being violated, go through security at, lets say israel, and see about rights You honestly think they care about how violated you seem to feel? European countries like Amsterdam are not a huge target like the U.S., so their security procedures may seem lax to ours, but they dont live in a nation where it seems like every one hates us. You know what though? This is still the greatest place on earth to live, you can speak your mind openly about the government without going to prison for life. So you know what love it or leave it.

What airport did the 911 terrorist's come through again? If only we had this at that time...

It won't let me erase, this wasn't the post I meant to respond to. Although I have to agree with you. When you're sitting on a plane ready to take off, would you rather the person sitting next to you have gone through the scan, or a pat down?

What is wrong with all of these right wing whiners!

Why weren't you people all up in arms over Bush/Cheney tapping our phones and email. Why did I not hear a peep out of the right when Bush/Cheney singled out and put a bunch of Democratic Activist and Green Party members on the no fly list with no just cause.

Pragmatic with Fault pretty much summed up the whole thing when he screamed about 4th amendment infringement and being guilty until proven innocent and then in the same paragraph endorsed racial profiling. Pure Racist Hypocrisy!

I have had to go through the pat down procedures for years due to embedded metal and have never felt it was any more of an inconvenience than waiting in line to go through the metal detectors.

You people are the same ones that would scream for Obama's head if we had a terrorist take over of a plane. We should be looking to better and more effective ways to keep people safe in the public transportation of America. Not screaming like little girls scared of getting cutties when asked to sacrifice so little for the countries well being.

spg64-1292127...It is the new world folks accept it or drive, you have the choice, whiners!

Hmm, since the ISLAMIC TERRORISTS come from the middle east, how about we tell THEM to drive!!

Worthless Obama, you don't understand cr@p! These scums of the earth (aka politicians), both republican and democrat, are precisely the reason why citizens of this once great country have been losing their constitutional rights by the corrupt hand of the government for the past several decades.

I am sick and tired of people who have never read the constitution or the bill of rights and feel that it's acceptable for the government to violate our 4th amendment rights! Never, I repeat, NEVER does any citizen give up their constitutional rights when purchasing an airline ticket, or when engaging in any other legal act.

What the TSA is doing on a daily basis is criminal and unconstitutional! And the politicians turn a blind eye to this situation and couldn't care less because they haven't been subject to these procedures. The only person in D.C. who seems to care and is on the people's side is Dr. Ron Paul with HR 6416 - American Traveler Dignity Act. Any representative that doesn't support this act is violating their oath of office and should be removed from office.

Of course, those who support this cr@p, including Obama, think that "what we’re doing is the only way to assure the American people’s safety". What a bunch of b$! What we're really doing is assuring the safety of Chertoff's pockets and political elite. The former head of the TSA gaining at our expense, why is no one talking about this obvious conflict of interest? Of course, the majority of this country has been brainwashed by Washington and will continue to let this happen until everyone loses their rights!

Yeah, to most of you sheep this sounds nonsensical, but just you wait. It may not be tomorrow, or next week, but as technology evolves, the government will be able to violate more and more of our rights and know exactly what we'll be doing on a minute-by-minute basis. And why would this be done? All in the name of safety and to stop the terrorists.

The government has already purchased ZBVs from AS&E (go ahead and look it up, AS&E even has a infomercial advertising them) and how long do you think it'll be before they publicly start driving these around cities, looking into your vehicles and homes to figure out what you're doing? But wait, it's all in the name of safety, so it's ok. And who will be the first to support this? That's right, the politicians because it gives them more and more control over our everyday lives. And technology isn't going to stop evolving here. Who knows what will be next. Whatever it is, it'll just increase the amount of government intrusion, never decreasing it.

Those of us who believe in the rights given to us by the founders are becoming more and more outraged at the behavior of government. And soon we will be labeled terrorists because we don't support these unconstitutional acts by the government.

spg64....I dont know where you were but I vividly remember most people were up in arms over the wiretapping, albeit needlessly. Even us right wingers. But we also eventually understood the chances of being wiretapped are slim to none if there is no reason to. I mean, come on, who has the time to sit there and sort through millions, if not, billions of calls, texts and emails daily. Think about the logistics of such an event. I am sure it meant specifically profiling certain groups or people to target for wiretapping, namely Muslims. Common sense kicked in when we realized this was much ado about nothing for 99.99999% of Americans.

This TSA issue is physical, in your face, blantant, humiliating body searches. Comparing subtle wiretapping to violating body searches is comparing apples to hamburgers.

Well, since it appears you don't know, the scanners were met with resistance at first, so then comes the underwear bomber, who was allowed on the plane by our very own State Department. This paved the way for the scanners Mr. Chertoff is now benefiting financially from.

Yes, it is true that he boarded the plane in another country! No matter, as stated above by President Bush, it is necessary..............oops, did I just write Bush, damn hard to tell the policies apart. So I should correct this right or should we just call this what it is, GW's third term.

Then again this is another example of the two-sided one party system that has us arguing over trivial issues while they continue sown the path of turning this country into a police state. This is also meant to break our will and force us to submit. Damn, another mistake, the continued voting results along with the I've got nothing to hide crowd shows we have already had our will broken!

spg -

The "where were you when" line fails on all counts, because you have NO IDEA where I or anyone else was when Congress passed the Patriot Act by a vote of 98 to 1. You simper and whine and want to blame Bush - and yet POTUS just renewed the Patriot Act last year.

It's no longer "Bush's Patriot Act". It is NOW POTUS's.

"Screaming about the 4th Amendment" is a bad thing? Do you wipe your arse with the Constitution or something? Do you even know what the 4th Amendment provides for? Look it up, learn something.

The REAL irony is swaddled babies who kvetch about the minuscule chance that their dopey text messages might get intercepted, but have NO problem with American citizens being presumed guilty and with no probable cause, getting radiated and/or groped in public - because POTUS supports it.

And the fact that the ONLY possible way to profile that you can comprehend is to profile via race simply illustrates what how much of a racist you must be. I've already pointed out multiple ways the shoe bomber could have been profiled for additional screening - and NONE of them involved race. He was a convicted criminal, with mulitple aliases, that belonged to a jihadist, anti-American mosque. He could be purple with green stripes, based on that description - get over your race fixation, okay? It's almost 2011.

Your undying, blind devotion to this president is laughable. Are you expecting him to show up on your doorstep with a check or something?

No president, past, present or future, deserves that kind of blind devotion.

Serious Question:

How many of those flying, at one time or another, had serious background checks, due to jobs requiring security clearances? Even if they no longer have the clearance, due to changing jobs or retiring, the hard part of the background check has already been done, and I'm sure it's still on file. This would mean that these people could authorize the government to update this information to make it current. Then these people would only require finger print verification, thus reducing the time for all to pass security checks.

Personally, I think we've already surrendered our Constitutional rights, thereby allowing the terrorists to win.

maybe so, but the worst ones came from US airports, and maybe if the security was on the ball or tighter maybe 911 could have been prevented.

but you cant prevent something the government wants to happen.

watch V for Vendetta, its the same tactics.

We've got the firm of Dewey Frigum and Howe running the show. What's Madam X Speaker going to do now that her big bird is no longer available? Or, for that matter all of them in DC who fly first class commercial? Oh sweet Karma may it bite them in the ass.

This dumb butt administration along with other lame ass administration is always a day late and trilliondollars short. May they all be blessed with terminal wedgies.

AARP should organize a group of senior citizens to go on a trip to some warm destination and dress for it ... Bathing suits and flip flops under a raincoat. I read where there are some who plan to wear kilts in the true Scottish tradition or go Au natural on Nov 24th. So far I haven't heard of a dress code restriction. Flash a berka babe day is next. Given they are the exception to the new rules, it seems only fair. Others are hiring strippers and paying their way. Hey Mohamed enjoy the view. I bet it beats those butt ugly virgin goats you're offering.

As for me I'm driving and donating my flight miles to families of wounded warriors. I'm just sorry they'll be subjected to this security farce. I'm not Jewish but I'll donate to the Israelis, they at least know what they are doing.

Its called PROFILING,the one tool that would be the most effective..Who has tried to blow up planes, trains, and building in the last 10 years? MUSLIM EXTREMISTS (hint mostly from the mid-east) why is everyone so damn afraid to do what is necessary? Oh we do not want to hurt anyones feelings, thats why we are now treating all innocent American travelers like livestock animals . Such a simple solution, yet no one will do it, so sad,,The Israeli's lead the way in cobatting muslim whackos who want to destroy them, but that would make too much sense to learn from them, because our dear President Unqualified , wants Israel to stop building settlements on land they control/own outright..Wish we had a President of the USA not a wannabe UN Leader..sheesh

HEALTH ALERT:

Have you noticed the BLUE GLOVES that the TSA uses for the Pat Downs??? And have you noticed that THEY DO NOT CHANGE THE GLOVES after frisking the previous passenger, who just might have some germs bad for you???? All other professionals change gloves along with the proper sanitary disposal after finishing working with each individual. So why should TSA be required to apply any less than acceptable standard health practices??? The gloves are for protecting themselves and they could care less about their passengers' health. Start demanding better health standards of practice requirements from the TSA when conducting their frisking, especially with young children and the elderly whose immune systems may not be as strong. Also, notify the Health Dept. concerning the TSA not changing gloves along with the lack of proper disposal of unsanitary gloves after frisking each individual.

I wasn’t going to post this. but people have the right to know. The body scanner is worthless piece of crap, and will not stop a Terrorist, so all you sheeple living under a false since of security wake up!

There are way’s to defeat the scanner. Do a search “Flying Pasties”There are other products out there like underwear, where TSA will see a Fig Leaf or a Happy face, So now a terrorist will opt for the scanner and hide the weapons or what ever behind the Pasties, and totally avoid the pat-down, So the scanner will only help the terrorist in the long run,

The Porno Scanners is a mega million dollars scam on the American people, and we our footing the bill, the best way to detect weapons and Bombs, is by man’s best friend is a trained Dog

TSA admitted that the scanner, would have not detected the Underwear bomber

So don’t give up on your freedoms, for a mega million dollar scam, stand up for your rights!!

ecib;you are correct on all counts. The use of dogs is an excellent idea, along with the Israeli method. IT WORKS and has for 30 years.

This administration and that useless dolt Sec of Homeland Security Napolitano have re-invented the triangular wheel.

Now Obama in his infinite clogged gear mentality wants to remove most of the NG from the border. Limiting what little security we have on our sive of a border. Gov. Rick Perry of TX has it right; put the TSA agents on the border and let them feel up the illegals. How many terrorists from all over are filtering in there?

I would be ok with the body scanners when and only when the following circumstances are met:

1. They must be 100% radiation free. Until the technology comes about that allows the same result without using any more radiation than we get from say the sun, you can't subject the public to this.

2. Computer software should be determining the "aberrations" and flagging people as needing to be reviewed by a human. That subsequent review should be automatically be cropped to the area determined by the software algorithm to be an aberration. The aberrations create “Reasonable Suspicion / Probable Cause” and allow “search”. Until reasonable suspicion is met it is completely unconstitutional to infringe on my right to privacy.

Until this happens, I don’t care how much public safety is threatened; You can’t go down the road of “Guilty until proven innocent”, without providing the grease for the slippery slope that takes us to thought police, martial law, book burning, and other forms of enslavement and control by a big brother government. All these things are tools that can and will be abused in the future, and the only way to prevent their abuse to remember the principals on which this country was founded, arguably the chief one being Liberty:

lib·er·ty

noun \ˈli-bər-tē\

1 : the quality or state of being free: a : the power to do as one pleases b : freedom from physical restraint c : freedom from arbitrary or despotic control d : the positive enjoyment of various social, political, or economic rights and privileges e : the power of choice

Our country's founders cherished liberty, not democracy. ~Ron Paul

We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. ~Thomas Jefferson

Fourscore and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. ~Abraham Lincoln

Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty. ~John F. Kennedy

Liberty cannot be preserved without general knowledge among the people. ~John Adams

Liberty has never come from Government. Liberty has always come from the subjects of it. The history of liberty is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it. ~Woodrow Wilson

Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude. ~Alexis de Tocqueville

Give me liberty or give me death. ~Patrick Henry

Please write Congress to let them know how you feel!

To write your Member of the U.S. House of Representatives, please visit: https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml
To write your U.S. Senator, please visit:
http://senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

Here's the 4th amendment to the Constitution of the United States:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and Warrants shall not be issued, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

I'm pretty sure TSA procedures are unconstitutional, and that's really the ONLY thing that matters here.

Doug makes a great point and not only that but one of the recent bombers was let in the back door at the airport, they didn't even go through security.

HEALTH ALERT: HEALTH ISSUES TO ASK HOMELAND SECURITY, HEALTH DEPT., & TSA:

Have you noticed the BLUE GLOVES that the TSA uses for the Pat Downs??? And have you noticed that THEY DO NOT CHANGE THE GLOVES after frisking the previous passenger, who just might have some germs bad for you???? IT IS VERY EASY TO SPREAD INFECTIONS SUCH AS: CHLAMYDIA AND TRICHOMONIASIS , etc.

spg-64 as a underage kid, i was raped in the ass by my priest. i don't really like being touched by some dumb @!$%# man. so i think YOU need to get over it. not me.

Apparently this makes them feel more secure:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6ByKOhAhsU

Like she was a security threat. Seriously people clue in.

Screw Obama and the TSA DO NOT FLY.

I don't care if you don't fly, but do not expect me to cater to your phobias and quirks. Air travel is not a right ~ it is a privilege extended by purchasing a ticket. If you disagree with the terms that attach to that purchase, then don't fly. All of the 9/11 terrorists boarded at US terminals and no one will dispute that they wanted to harm us ~ and did.

And all they had to do was get into the cockpit.

Do you really think they NEEDED the boxcutters to do that? Don't be naive.

I guess you haven't been to Europe recently.

travel is not a right ~ it is a privilege extended by purchasing a ticket.

Utter bull@!$%#. Air travel is not a privilege, it is a COMMODITY. And just like any other legal commodity, you have a RIGHT to buy it should you have the funds to do so.

What next? Obtaining potassium in your diet is a "privilege" extended by purchasing a banana at Walmart?

That is true, if YOU are a terrorist. The rest of us would appreciate the security taking place in the background where it belongs.

Air travel a privilege? Come on. It is a commercial service provided by private companies just as supermarkets are service providers. You go there to shop and buy what you need to eat or drink. You buy a place on an aircraft in order to travel. In both cases there are security procedures - just try getting out of a supermarket through the entrance!! In the case of the aircraft the security is at the entrance and not the exit. That is fine for safety reasons and I don't really have a problem with scanners. After all even the most warped pervert would surely get bored after the 10,000th passenger's bady has drifted across her screen. But I do rather wonder who is making money out of all this and whether or not Obama is being mislead by a new type of wmd.

Physical pat-downs are no different from the full-body searches customs do on people suspected of carrying drugs or whatever - but they are carried out under strict protocols and only if there is STRONG evidence of an offence being attempted. This on the other hand smacks like legalised assault.

i disagree! air travel is a right! you are using a private buisness to travel. you dont have any restrictions against flying unless you are on a no fly list, meaning you for some reason lost that right. it's no diffrent than getting a drivers lic, you have a right to that till you screw that up, same as a fire arm. You have the rights to be entitled to anything you want that is deemed legal, and because uncle f'ing sam doesnt think it is a right, doesnt mean uncle f'ing sam is correct. i hope every guy pops a ED pill just in time for his patdown, and every woman can make the gropers feel as uncomfortable as possible, or yes, just dont fly. once the airlines need another bailout, maybe things will change. we get raped for high airfares, poor service, long lines, haveing to show up now 2-3 hrs just to be able to board, and for what? bus takes a bit longer, a bit tiresome, but what i will do rather fly. actually taking a bus takes a bit longer on the road pending where your going, like cross country, but i think the buslines could use the buisness. It takes me 3hrs 30 min to drive from where i live to Gwinn Mi. By bus, it takes according to the schedual, 3:45. Not bad. cost=$35.00 from green bay Wi. to fly, timeline is actually to leave from GB, 1.5 hrs to be there b4 flight for checkout, 1.5 hrs fly time, and someone to pick me up at the Skandia airport, for the drive back, another 20-30 minutes, 1 way. time=3:20 minimum, + waiting for my luggage to make it from the plane, another 20 minutes.From the bus, the driver pops the hatch, and hands you your bag, if you dont have a carry on, that you are not charged extra for. To me bus makes more sence, takes a tad more time when flying say from wisc to alabama, that trip i think took me 12 hrs back in 1984, and i think its a little faster now. Whereas if you were to fly, 1 way would cost you good, then 3-4 hrs, plus the time you wait, show up hrs early, get felt up by a stranger, more than likely a delay of at least an hour, and if you try to save a few bucks taking a layover, you go thru the same thing all over again :). No i dont work for the buslines, nor do i know anyone who does. altho i did take one a few times, and i must say, the drivers were always friendly, helpful, and didnt mind a bit of small talk along the way. You dont get the booze cart, or the peanuts hostess, but you dont get that either as a compliment unless you pay what is if for a small bag of nuts??? i hate to ask, but wondering.

Meg, who granted you this right of air travel? By the way where do you put your gun on the flight? That is a restriction my friend, just like not being able to bring a bottle on board. You can't use your cell phone on board. No there are many restrictions.

Talk to some one is Isreal and get educated.

No one seems to remember that the groping started with Bush....and no one said a word then. This scanner has been in the works for almost ten years. Small government Bush created the TSA.

And someone mentioned that we don't need the government to protect us? What do you propose you are going to protect yourself with? A Gun? good luck there. You'll get arrested, or tasered, or shot. Either way you're going to jail...unless you're in law enforcement.

Welcome to the Reservation my friends...pull a chair up and have a beer.

As an entrepeneur I'm seeing a business opportunity here. Anyone know if the guys flying in private jets don't have to go through this kind of crap? If not, I think chartering private jets for business class travellers will have a huge uptick in business. Anyone want to buy some "private" jets with me? I'd pay a premium to leave this mess all behind.

Jim in Texas - You are a perfect example of someone who has been brainwashed by this government.

Air travel is not a right ~ it is a privilege extended by purchasing a ticket.

You really have no idea what you're talking about, you ignoramus! Purchasing an airline ticket does not mean I have given up my constitutional rights! Why do people like yourself have such a problem understanding this? It seems like such a simple concept. Never does a citizen give up their rights when engaging in a legal act!

If you disagree with the terms that attach to that purchase, then don't fly.

Really? Do you honestly believe that the terms of purchase allow the TSA or the airlines to do whatever they please? So if they start blindfolding everyone, sealing their mouths with duct tape, and handcuffing them while on the plane to prevent any potential terrorist attempt, this will be ok as long as it was in the terms of purchase? If you do, then I have to give a round of applause to the government for doing such an excellent job of making you believe this. Bravo!

Why don't you do everyone a favor and read the constitution and the bill of rights? Maybe, just maybe you will then be able to say something intelligent. Until then, enjoy living your meager life at the hand of government.

@DotR....

patdowns did not include grabbing private parts, it was a normal type pat down. if you got groped, well good for you i guess, must maybe hav sent the signal to be groped, cause way i remember it... it was a quick check, nothing at all informal, and seemed good enough that if i had something stashed in my pockets that was out of norm, after the metal detector, i would have been asked to take it out. you have that leftist dream cooking about you.... might want to have that checked out with the rest of you ilk.

As an American who works abroad, I can assure you that flying home is a right, not a privilege. Seven million Americans work abroad, so I am not alone on this matter. I won't be coming home this year, I can also assure you, because I do not intend to have my constitutional rights abridged in order to undergo a humilating and completely unwarranted search. I've already made my overseas vacation plan since it seems only the US is treating US citizens this way. Let me know when you folks back home get serious about actually profiling real terrorist threats--and while you're at it, pssst, the skinny on bin Laden is that he is still loafing around Pakistan going on eleven years now, no doubt having a good chuckle over all the little old ladies and toddlers who will be groped in the name of "national security" while the real terrorists go about their business.

The Brits used these machines (old technology) about a decade ago and abondoned using them due to personal rights.

I guess they had a lot in surplus and had gave old Chertoff a heck of a deal on them so he could foist them on us.

While the official Government mantra is that these beasts are safe and use only about the same radiation or less than a dental x-ray (I also only get dental x-rays if I feel there is a problem--have a friend who died of thyroid cancer and her Dr. said it was caused by dental x-rays) but the scientists at U of California aren't buying it. They say it is 20 times more than a dental x-ray and maybe more--unsafe for anyone, but especially for frequent business flyers.

Stop the death ray machines and the pat downs that may be rape. Do you know the definition of criminal rape? It isn't just what you may think--learned from sitting in on a rape trial.

Are you saying it's alright for some strange person to fondle your kids as long as they are not a pedophile?

Security in airports are no-brain jobs. And you can be sure that the wealthy and any "official person" will be able to avoid these pat downs altogether. This is treatment is strictly for the sheep. And when the next terrorist decides to stick a pipe bomb down the gullet or up the gazoo, get ready to drop to your knees or bend over, because the TSA is prepared to give it to ya...

Actually, a friend who is a mmber of Congress is not exempt. This is concerning. Imagine the market for obscene nudie photos of our leaders and yes they have been proven to be stored and yes they are up on the internet.

Well said. I also am a liberal and support Obama. However, the scanners and pat-downs are infringing on our rights.

http://usmilnet.com/smf/index.php/topic,15369.0.html

http://www.targetofopportunity.com/mission.htm

You took the words right out of my mouth. Well put!!!

Very well put! Hear! Hear!

Exactly Lynn!

Obama is totally out of touch with the People on this issue.

He wouldn't tolerate it for one second if his wife or daughter had to go through this nazi garbage. Chertoff is responsible for this, he is the one that pushed it and his "consultant" company is one of the two companies providing the scanners at 140 million dollar or so contract to the US Government. The former head of the Israeli Airport security said it is non sense and the scanners would not have seen the "underwear" bomber.

This is all just a money making scam being perpetrated on the American people once again.

As much as I love my Country, whenever these kinds of issues come up all kinds of reasons for why come to mind. My take on these kinds of things is "Follow the money."

dont blame obama for the result of what bush did to us.

but, body scans are the best way, i went through one in amsterdam, it was only a silhouette of a human figure and only indication markers are shown on areas with something abnormal.

leave it to the US to have scanners that show peoples bodies.

Absolutely right!

I am an Obama supporter, generally, because he has been tackling a slew of tough problems and doing a tough job well.

But not on this issue. The terrorists of the world have won when we are subjected to body scans and pat-downs "for our own protection".

If people simply stop flying and drive instead, or take a bus or a train, the planes will fly empty or not at all. I'll bet the body scans and pat-downs will end, right then and there.

I've had it with this administration cramming things down the throat of Americans that we just don't want. How many days until the next election? I CAN'T WAIT.

Yeah, We thank the troops overseas for their work , to fight and defend us home , and we complain when we r asked to do our part... we say it's an outrage, ridiculus... such a right wing extremist complain ... must listen to those talk Radio Hosts ...

Irritating? It's an affront to our dignity and our freedoms.

And I don't want to hear it from someone that doesn't have to experience it.

Right, and the first silicone/ explosive breast, or the first exploding prosthetic, and you will resound with the angels the shortsightedness of your leaders. Sing your embrace elsewhere.

Lynn

You got that right. I was going to post the exact same thing!

Let POTUS and family have to go through what all Americans are subject going through with these invasive body scans and pat-downs. Let his daughters have to go through this or his wife or any other members and then let's all sit down with him and have a heartfelt chat how wonderful and necessary it was. To watch yourself have a manual pat-down is bad enough, but to be a witness to your son, daughter, husband or wife is worse What if the child is a rape survivor???? The re-traumatization would be deadly this time for them. They may commit suicide!! Has any of these psychological conditions been thought of by the TSA or Mr. Obama???? Show me the 81% that agree this is OK to do this! They keep saying that is the amount of people accepting this violation of one's body or risk the radiation over and over. Some choice, huh! They can't, it's just some arbitrary percentage someone made up!!! Let's see, who would benefit from such a high false reading? Just follow the TSA President on down. Of course Obama had to say this in another country, not face a townhall here in America. It's only the Tea Party bigots who would love the' cop -a- feel attitude, they care not at all what American peons think. Last time, show me this 81%!!!

Salute to you Gordy

The Vine is on fire tonight. There are over 4000 posts spread across 3 threads on the TSA issue. I try to support Obama, it was his election that reformed me from my anarchist ways.

The American people are not cattle to be unemotionally "processed" and herded. Does this feel like the government does not see the general citizens with a human depth? This just reeks, it is a blatant violation of the 4th amendment. Our access to flight is not a privilege, it's a necessity, just like electricity.

Took the words right out of mine too....My grandchildren will never be fondled this way. We teach them not to let others touch them, then we teach them it's okay if it's professional, they are so confused. Even all professionals aren't what they claim to be. I wonder how many pedifiles they have as TSA agents.

Its simple dont fly or hire a private jet. I cant believe all the idiots complaining about a procedure to make plane travel safe. Anyone lose someone on 9/11? Had these procedures been in place then there would not have been a 9/11. Wake up everyone. If there were two airlines one that provided safe travel with full screening & pat downs or one that offered no pat downs no full scans but couldn't guarantee safe travel which would you pick? if you say the the no pat down one you are a liar. And no I voted for McCain.

Anyone who thinks the president should have to go through these security measures, I totally agree! I just pray he or his family are going through in front of you and not me. :) Get real! The people don't need protection from him so much as he needs protection from us, hence the so called privilege he affords flying on air force one.

jalexander,

Another big industry Obama is trying to destroy. Not only can he do it under the guise of national security, he'll come in and unionize them to boot. There is no end to Obama's ideology. Nothing to do with security or the American people. All to do with power, control and his progressive agenda.

In God We Trust

In exchange for flight safety, I for one am perfectly fine with full body scans and pat downs in order for me to be allowed to board a plane. As an American citizen, I have NO problem with this.

how about this...........when you bring an item to the airport, such as shaving cream or any other item, now not allowed on travel............ that, opposed to it being ripped from your person and rudely thrown in the trash, with no excuse, you get a claim ticket and its put aside, so you can pick your goddamn belonging later. Since it does not belong to the airport, its workers, etc....

Atta boy...or girl M.Fox

Lynn, I'm thinking that you have never traveled in Europe. When my husband and I went to Israel on El Al, EVERYONE was strip-searched going and coming. No cavity search or anything like that, but we undressed in cubicles and every piece of clothing was searched...seams...hems....

when was the last time an El Al flight blew up in midair? UNDERGOING ENHANCED SECURITY doesn't bother me at all. It is a nuisance, of sorts, but better than dieing.

Nope Never been to Europe. I drive commercial vehicle for a living, about 3000 miles a week. I have an 81 year old father whose health is... slipping. I have gotten that phone call that says "get here quick" and I head for the nearest airport. 3 False alarms so far.

But it's not a nudity issue, I will run through the airport in my panties if I have too. I feel the need to add here that I only weigh 114 pounds! So I wouldn't terrorize my fellow passengers.

This is how I see the issue.

The American people are allowing themselves to be humiliated, suffering extra stress and anxiety, because they are afraid of a handful of extremists. They are afraid.

Do I need to say that again.

The American People are Frightened, and will do ANYTHING to have someone tell them it's safe.

That concept shakes me to my core. I do not like to think that my fellow Americans are letting the Terrorists spread Terror in our country.

We are capitulating, letting a handful of hateful people destroy our Pride, and self worth.

I am a liberal, and I am saying this. No One will EVER make me do something that I DO NOT WANT TO DO. I am not Afraid of Terrorists. Drop the Security Measures.

Not only that but it's really frightening the way so many people see nothing wrong with the idea of minor children being viewed naked or groped by adult strangers. In any other setting that would be considered child abuse.

Good people will win if we speak up...

Government must be dragged kicking and screaming thru the door of reason, otherwise it won't happen!

Unfortunately there is no end to this. Would you rather go through a few minutes of humiliation to prevent getting blown to pieces? I know I would. If one idiot on the plane has explosives in his underwear, his shoe, or down his pants it will be the end of the line for everyone on the plane.

Well put

Daniel,

With your attitude, the terrorists have won. Do you fly?

In God We Trust

No planes blown up in the US since 9/11........No we are winning

OK, Dan, you go ahead and line up for your 'few minutes of humiliation'. As for me, I'd rather die a free woman than to live one minute as a coward.

Those of us who gave up our free time to go play in the Sandbox fully understand why the terrorists hold nothing dear. They do not inhabit the same world we do. If you'd ever spent a second on the ground in full uniform anywhere in the desolate Middle East in 130 degree weather, you'd not surrender your rights so willingly.

Do not be so quick to cede your precious freedom for the illusion of safety. And it IS an illusion. I'd rather spend my 'end of the line' on a plane, going down fighting, than to witness the downward spiral and utter decimation of truth, justice, and the American way.

Well put XrayUASVet! Thank you for serving to protect us all. To the people that think these measures make them any more safe I say, WAKE UP! You are sadly mistaken! Metal detectors and trained canine would do much much more towards safety without violating our rights.

Ok, what is your solution to this problem? I see people posting "I'd rather live a free woman than suffer the humiliation etc...blah.blah...." Staying at home because I'm afraid, is the definition of being a "coward". I love to travel and there is much of the world, I still wish to experience. Unless, we drop a hydrogen bomb on Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan etc....we will share this planet with these nuts. For whatever reason, our government hasn't wanted to completely destroy these people, so I prefer to have a full body scan and go on about my business.

The X-ray based machines were chosen because they were cheaper than machines that could sniff out explosives. But the cheapest and least intrusive would have been using dogs like they do in the baggage area when they are looking for drugs.

Ah, but Chertoff and company couldn't make any money by training and selling dogs. Although using dogs to sniff for explosives would avoid the health risks of x-rays and the humiliation of the pat-downs.

@ikie 12pts,

Maybe you need a class on reading for content. I did NOT say I'd rather live a free woman than suffer the humiliation. Let me reiterate my original assertion. The comment was, "As for me, I'd rather DIE a free woman than to LIVE one minute as a coward." It held true for Patrick Henry, and it still holds true for a few of us today.

Fear-based "security measures" will not keep us safe. Reactionary TSA policies surely won't. It's been said over and over again, but some of you still don't get it. The terrorists have already moved on to their next plan of attack. The "Underwear Bomber" was almost a year ago. Our government might want to try adapting at least as quickly as the terrorists.

How about a proactive plan that doesn't involve getting more radiation in addition to what I already get at work, or flashbacks to the night my stepdad snuck into my room when I was a very young teen? Yes, that's right. I said it. I didn't consent to being touched by that loser anymore than I consent to being touched by a stranger now.

As for not traveling, that is not an option. I do not live in fear. I will be flying to Hawaii on my honeymoon next year. Fair warning: I will be going through security in a tankini, carrying a trenchcoat for modesty. I'll endure a little humiliation to avoid being irradiated and/or intimately touched. I will endure (and have endured) a lot of things for freedom. But I will not surrender my liberty for this exercise in futility.

The solution is simple. Instead of groping Granny and the kids, we could actually use INTEL and COMMON SENSE. Before the TSA grabs somebody's junk or hoo-ha, interview people to determine where they're going and why. Observe them for the tell-tale signs of deception. Pay special attention to single males (or females, for that matter) sans luggage with one-way tickets paid for in cash. And here's a thought: do the same thing every other law enforcement agency is legally bound to do--use probable cause to single out suspicious persons for further scrutiny. Deploy the dogs.

Maybe this would incur more expense than the current zap and grab system. It would involve training the TSA to use their BRAINS before using their hands. But reasonable profiling is infinitely preferable to violating the civil rights of millions of innocent American citizens. It will also have a far higher success rate. Concentrate our limited resources on the most credible threat. What a concept!

i totally agree this whole TSA screening is a Gross Violation of our Rights.. and does nothing to truely further tighten the security of the airlines.. think about it.. I am sure they STILL have NOT solved the problem with securing all the cargo... and until they secure the cargo why the heck worry about people.. when all it takes is one planted printer cartrige and a cell phone.. and the plane will go bye bye... the terroist doesnt need to go in the front door. ie thru the TSA worker they can go in the back door... cargo... think about it... and in the mean time all of us have given up our rights of citizenship that our soldiers have foughtand died so valiently for.. (my father, brother, husband etc) all so some former head of the TSA can make a few extra hundred thousand dollars... esp since the scanners wouldn't detect the type of underwear bomb or other type of explosives that are out there and the pat downs are nothing more than intrusive offensive busy work that do nothing but irritate and offend travelers..

what wrong with screeners?

maksin80,

The problem with the screeners is that they are only human. I am not going to make judgements regarding their attitude, especially after they have had to deal with a combination of federal regulations and the American public. Either would make me ill-tempered.

But the real problem is they are only about 12% effective in catching their own test plants. Plus, they work in an ever-changing environment of concealment and subterfuge. What they are trained to detect is already obsolete considering the threat potential.

Suicide bombing is effective for small, desperate groups; but to win a long term battle or war, you preserve your troops by using guerilla methods. Strike where the enemy feels safe. Look at the Israelis fight against the British, blowing up their headquarters. Nothing in this world is new, certainly not war or terrorism. The terrorists have already achieved their goal for 9/11. The delays, inconvenience and uproar created by their attack have only deepened over the past nine years. The purpose of terrorism is not to "win" a battle, but to win a war by wearing down your enemy, altering his perspective, ruining his way of life until he concedes defeat from physical, emotional and moral exhaustion.

The latest threats have been from package bombs. There is no reason to believe that trend will not continue. Remember Ted Kizinski (sp?). He used the USPO, among others, as a delivery boy. USPO, UPS and Fedex all carry packages on aircraft. USPO uses commercial aircraft; yes, the same ones you sit in. Disabled private cargo planes from UPS or Fedex will creat just as much damage on the ground as a passenger aircraft. This ignores the prospects of container-borne bombs coming to our ports by the shiploads every day. Not to mention cross-border rail and truck shipments.

What is wrong with the screeners is that they and their proscribed methods are a distraction. The real question is how do fight a homeless, stateless enemy who relies on centuries of tradition and a perversion of faith as their chief weapon and sheild. Unfortunately, the only real answer is to out-tolerate, out-educate and out-last them. Given the American patience and attention span, my money is, unfortunately, on Al Quieda.

Excellent post Bill....

Phenomenal post, Bill. Clearly you, unlike many of the other people who are commenting, have put a lot of thought and insight into your comment. I applaud you for your accurate and concise communication of the true problem here. Unfortunately, I am afraid that many who read it will allow it to fly directly over their heads without so much as an attempt at comprehension. Know that you have my respect, for what it is worth.

Bill,

Nice post.

Is that the same as Stupid ohmy? I think so.

No statements like that are dead-on, and they aren't juvenile at all.

Very original, strider. That same comment has already been made several times (see above). If you have nothing new to contribute, don't.

Working mom,

Are you the official screener for posts here? Nahhh. That is Tyler. If it comes from Tyler, it's the law. From you it is offensive.

ohmyohmy09 (and) WorkingMom79 - no it's his opinion and his right to free speech (not juvenile and no more or less-worthy than your comments!)

Strider-you must be one of these right-wingers that think the president is a Muslim extremist. Why would, "St. "Obama need to be patted down or his wife and children? Get real! It's people like you that have no respect for our president that need to be patted down just so you don't try to slip by security with a bomb up your ass. Moron! His name is president Obama. He is not a saint and doesn't proclaim to be one. I for one would rather have my wife, fondled, screened, seen naked by strangers who don't know who she is before I'd like to step onto a plane without knowing that there are no terrorists on that plane. It only takes one mistake, I saw 9/11 live so I realize the consequences of not screening passengers. How soon we forget! Never forget 9/11.

Styder,

President Obama, our ELECTED Leader, is an educated man, so my guess is that he would understand it actually keeps them safer if everyone is going through the same strenuous procedures. I for one have had to go through these advanced procedures for years due to embedded metal in my chest and have never seen it as a problem.

I can fly across the country in 5 hours give a lecture and be back at home to tuck my kids in bed that very night. Well worth the 60 seconds it takes them to pat me down.

I would like more attention to be paid to cargo and those systems are now coming on line with no help from the airline industry. I would also like to see TSA jobs become jobs with living wages, even military trained if possible. We need to push for newer technologies and better training for the TSA and not the opposite!

Just like the new health care that Obama pushed, rammed and shoved down everyone's throat. It's OK for the rest of us but he and his family and friends (congress) are too good for it.

working mom79-----

if you are still working at the age of 79 you sure screwed up----big time!!!!

I'm through with President Obama, the president who allowed the absolute worst violations of the Constitution on his watch. That's all he will ever be to me again.

It's like the federal government is doing everything in its power to limit the movement of the citizens of this country. What's next? Needing permission to take a trip or to move to where jobs are?

Don't worry Tammy there will be no jobs left

Tammy, it's fine to move to where to where the jobs are. Just so long as you are willing to abandon your house.

How bout there are two lines, one for people who like getting molested and having naked pictures taken of them, and another for people who expect reasonable security measures that are not a criminal invasion of our privacy. It's absolutely ridiculous how people expect others to feel exactly the way they do about the new security measures, If you have no problem with them fine, but don't expect everyone else to line up behind you, stupid sheep.

jrc, felony sexual assault is a little over the top isn't it? We can choose the alternative, which is a full body scan. What's wrong with that?

Obama acknowledged that as president he does not have to go through pat-downs and other normal security procedures at airports, since he flies on Air Force One.

Nor do any members of Congress, as they are exempt from laws that apply to the lowly commoners.

Obama has thrown the Constitution away and now he's kicking us to the curb. Throw the bum out!

Remember this all came out under Bush, not Obama.

this all came out under Bush...

But it escalated to numerous incidents of groping passengers' genitals and manhandling young children after obama's group got irritated at how the midterms turned out...

Ooh goody, one more. The truth will set you free!

Thank you teabagger. I was once a great fan of GW Bush until he started all of this homeland insecurity krap. You should see all of the security BS one has to go through just to keep a job at a refinery or a power plant.

Yea, Johan, too bad your friggen hero in the WH has done NOTHING to end the "homeland" security bullcrap and has instead chosen to extend the Patriot Act and stands behind the criminalization of the entire American population that tries to engage in the legal act of flying.

Let me start off by thanking all my fellow Americans, the sleeping giant has finally awaken. I was really starting to lose faith in everybody. I decided to reply to ornery dem because your points are basically right on. Any person who has any bit of self respect, dignity, and believes and lives by our Constitution should be outraged by these new airline screening methods. In my job I deal with TSA every day, I know what type of people they hire. A colleague of mine applied for TSA, he is a college graduate, and a good person. He wasn't hired because he was too smart and too polite. These new screening procedures have nothing to do with our safety it's a scare tactic to get us all to except it and once it becomes routine the ballgame is over, it will open the door allowing the government to basically do what ever they want. I can't wait until you all find out how dangerous these full body scanners really are. Everybody will be screaming bloody murder how the government lied to them. If you are a frequent flyer you need to heed my warning, don't go near those scanners! If you were to develop cancer your government will turn their backs the same way they did with the 1st responders at ground zero. If you decide to still trust your government, write down today's date and you continue to get zapped, and when your dying from cancer remember someone who cared tried warning you. I'm driving instead of flying for Thanksgiving and i don't think people are going to boycott the airlines, but I thought of a way to throw a monkey wrench in the works. This is for straight men that decide to opt out of the scanners. If I was flying, I wouldn't want to be sexually assaulted by another man, especially when it's a possibility that he can be gay or a pervert. I would insist on a woman patting me down, the way I look at it, if the government is going to continue violating our civil liberties, I would rather be felt up by a woman. Your not refusing the patdown, your just requesting a woman to do it.

ornery dem, I agree. Obama has let a lot of folks down with his bland, canned rhetoric on this subject. He is nothing but a typical politician and cares very little for what the American people think.

That's just how I feel as a moderate Republican. I tried to open my mind to Obama, etc., etc. I'm done. He has no regard for what America was and is actually supposed to be. Sickening.

Boycotts just hurt everyone else BUT the ones you want to punish. The mindless cities boycotting Arizona for SB1070 hurts the people they supposedly want to help the most...the busboys, hotel roomkeepers, cleaning people, dishwashers....the list goes on.

Point is, boycotting flying will hurt the airlines, but the TSA will still go on.

As one senator said, the TSA needs to go

Flying is not right. it is privilege, if you don't like it drive

maksimo - learn the definition of privilege one of them is thus : any of the rights common to all citizens under a modern constitutional government: We enjoy the privileges of a free people.

Priveleges are by definition Rights, anyone who can afford to fly is allowed to fly

The US once had the privileges of a free people, they now have the TSA

OK I'll bite, flying is a privilege. So we deny that privilege to all middle eastern looking people. According to your logic, that should fix it.

Don't forget the ones that look like Timothy McVeigh!

Let's see. Thousands of Muslim extremists have killed tens of thousands of people, and you come up with Timothy McVeigh, thinking you've pulled a trump card?

F - A - I - L

anyone who can afford to fly is allowed to fly

Incorrect, otherwise there would be no such thing as a no fly list.

Also, airliners can deny service to anyone for any reason (or no reason) as they deem necessary (it's their right as a company to be able to do so).

Priveleges are by definition Rights

Definition of privilege:

"a special advantage or immunity or benefit not enjoyed by all"

Definition of rights:

"Powers or privileges granted by an agreement or law."

Clearly you can see that you can have one without necessarily having the other.

If you don't want to be molested by the TSA, then don't fly. I think mandatory security screenings is mentioned in the terms of service for every airline.

Corporations shouldn't have the ability to force anyone to abrogate their Constitutional rights; they should not be above the law. "Terms of Service" should not be weighed in an American courtroom over our Constitution, period. They should not even be allowed to provide a "privilege" in America if they can't obey our Constitution. You people who are arguing here for privilege over rights are clearly as confused as Obama when it comes to understanding why this country was formed and just what the American middle class is. Privilege is not something a free person should have to avail him or herself of; we use money for that. We are supposed to have freedom - even if we do have big companies and big government and people who expect to reap lots of privilege in the future to thank for trying to take it away from us.

We need to wake up and remember that we, the people, ARE the fourth branch of government and we, the people, are the CONSUMERS that run the businesses; we are the ones actually in control. If only we would remember that, and behave accordingly. Obama was right about that much - we are the very people we are waiting for. It isn't wrong to stand up to the TSA; it's wrong not to. It's irresponsible, at the least, and unpatriotic, at its worst.

Anything you have to pay for is not a privilege! We live in a Capitalistic Society...Get real. Flying is not the saftest way to travel; it is the fastest and I, for one, have never trusted the maintainence programs so I will be driving during the holidays, and if I lose my life in the process, then so be it. I won't have to deal with a stranger touching my person in the process.

It's not a right or a privilege -- it's a purchased service/commodity. Supply and Demand. Buy it or don't buy it. People vote with their dollars -- either boycott or use another form of transportation. If flying were a right -- an equal right -- than I shouldn't have to travel so far to the closest airport and my ticket shouldn't cost so much because I'm flying out of a small airport and I should be able to sit wherever I want in the plane, and I should be offered better food [free] and I shouldn't have to wait in lines, and I shouldn't ever get bumped from my flight, and I shouldn't have to sit next to someone who's obnoxious or smells bad, and I shouldn't have to listen to crying children, etc, etc. etc. These things are annoying and invade my right to comfortable and enjoyable travel.

before you walk to security checkpoint, there sign that says, beyond this point you be subject to administrative searches. So by walking in you giving permission. You should read disclaimer, it is on every checkpoint.

So - if the sign said you had to submit to a strip search, you think that's OK?

If the sign said the TSA could do anything they want past that point - you think that's OK?

You think that stupid sign outranks the 4th Amendment? You should read the Constitution.

You obviously don't fly much and particularly lately. I get groped every trip because I have replacement knees, not because there is some reason to search me. I have a security clearance and have passed much higher background checks than the gropers, er, screeners.

what about the right to bear arms? let's forget all of this searching, and let everyone take their guns and knives and ak 47's on board. then we will really be safe! don't search anyone, the right wing posse will protect us all. yeehaw!

Being in possession of a weapon doesn't mean the weapon will be used.

Mary, I would rather be on a plane full of right wingers with guns that know how to use them than stripped of any means of defense up to and including nail clippers and a cigarette lighter in the hopeless pursuit of the holy grail of guaranteed safety in every situation, everywhere, at any time.

Do you understand, AT ALL, the concept of intent?

I'll make it simple: If 300 "right wingers" (my disgust for liberals grows daily, wasn't it you SAME people all outraged at wire-taps?) all board a plane with a gun, and not a SINGLE ONE of them intends to use it - what happens?

NOTHING.

So if we just put a sign/disclaimer on front of the constitution that'd be ok with marksim I guess. Warning: The basis of the country and rights described herein are subject to change without notice. By living here you accept that at anytime these rights can be revoked for any number of reasons, including but not limited to, race, nationality, etc....

Yeah, that'll make it all ok. Kind of like how the republicans want to cut funding to NPR due to its 'liberal bias'' (because they're sure to go after FOX news too for their conservative one) Very AMERICAN of them.. Freedom of speech.. except when we don't agree with you.. then we'll silence you. LOL

This country really has been bought and sold to the highest bidders. :/ So sad that such great concepts would be used for simple greed and the interests of a few.

Don't profile me, I think wiretaps are great! i am happy to have my conversations monitored, if it means that someone planning a terror attack might also be monitored. I really don't care who hears me talking about turkey stuffing or Christmas crafts, or politics, for that matter. Sure I get intent, I was stripped of my embroidery thread snippers in Helsinki, and glad of it! I had no intention to stab someone with them, but I was glad to put them in my luggage. Small stuff!

So you willingly surrender your rights then, Mary.

Fortunately, this country is filled to the brim with people who don't.

Otherwise, you would have NO rights.

Money, money, money.... It's all about money. And someone is going to make a boatload (as in all other "protection" scams).

Gov't control = big profits for the main players. And FEAR is the best method of control, of course...

I'll driving for a while, I guess. There are much better places to be patted down that in an airport.

Some of you amaze me. You'd rather just stay at home, or drive (the last time I looked, we can't drive through the ocean) rather than have a body scanner used to ensure safety of the plane and all of the passengers. It's more than apparent that some of you have never flown anywhere, let alone out of the country. Some people have to fly for their jobs. They don't just hop into their Dodge Charger ( the absolute ugliest vehicle ever designed)and cruise down to work.

Umm... I don't mean to sound naive, but, uh, what does the asthetic value of the Dodge Charger have to do with anything?

I agree that Obama is a do-nothing president. He either doesn't care or doesn't have the cojones to act.

you so ignorant and not even ounce of intelligence in your words.

And you claim to be a TSA "officer" in post 19.1? I think everyone else's point here has just been made. The thought process displayed in that response and some of your others is exactly why a great deal of innocent people believe the TSA is composed of unhirable mall cops.

The TSA is not God. Overkill reactions to absolutely every little puff of wind. I know that you don't make the rules, but you know they aren't even capable of preventing anything - aside of confiscating some two-year old's leftover orange juice. Which is sooooo dangerous to us all.

you so ignorant and not even ounce of intelligence in your words.

This type of screening accomplishes NOTHING except now the USG is terrorizing the public instead of the jihadists.

The TSA is only reactionary - they do not have a clue how to detect a threat.

You claim to be a TSA "officer". Are you sure your title is not Private Parts?

Maksim,

Either provide some counter point or accept that you are the ignorant one.

Oh, my! You are so right.

maksim -

If you are indeed a TSA officer, you are demonstrating the moronic actions of the TSA. Luggage is not "checked" 100%. They run it through a scanner that could not detect an atomic bomb. Occasionally they let TSA monkeys rummage through it and tear up and ruin everything inside. How do I know? It happens to me.

Don't forget that lots of times, items turn up missing.

Not only is most luggage not checked with any regularity and thoroughness, but any bulk cargo freight is not checked at all.

The only luggage check is to make sure each bag has a matching passenger.

maksimo80 - your level of ignorance and obvious lack of education makes me truly fear the TSA if they would hire someone, like you, who is blatantly incompetent

Maksim, you don't even seriously believe your own arguments, do you? Are other agents on the same wavelength as you? You do not provide a valuable service, you do not protect us. Your agency has transitioned into a Nazi like regime, convinced by your superiors that your behavior is correct, as it serves the greater good. The good of the party. But deep inside, you know that it's not right. These are the choices we make in life. Some of us build, some destroy. For those of you who dedicate their life to such negative, and worthless pursuits, you have my pity, but not my sympathy.

maksim80

luggage checked 100%, how I know? I am Tsa officer.

Does that comment show the educational level of very many of the TSA agents whose hands vigorously grope the genital areas of passengers?

And there it is!!! It's your job.

Congrats Maksim. You are part of the problem and you are trying to defend it in vain.

maksim80 you sir are the problem. Please remember that you are NOT an officer. An officer has at least an education in criminal justice. You sat for how long in training to search people in this way? Sir, an officer goes to school to learn how to uphold our constitution and protect citizens. You sir are an agent with a limited education.

oh! they took care of the cargo threat. They banned printer ink cartridges from air cargo. (the bonb was inside a laset printer cartridge.)

no cartidge = no bomb.

Luggage and cargo are both scanned, already.

I agree. What do you think would happen if everyone entering a football stadium, rock concert, or restaurant had to be groped by morons before they could enter?

I know what would happen - the venue would be out of business in a heartbeat and the "gropers" would be in jail.

Well, Doctor Larry, the sellers of the back scatter machine (and the other type) will be looking for new markets, so you may not be far off. I remember some years ago when i complained about our courthouse security, the man in charge said "You do it at the airport don't you?" In his opinion anyway, what happens at the airport is considered the acceptable norm for security at other venues.

For those who advocate boycotts or slowdowns, I would suggest that a manner of protesting would be to refuse to buy anything at the airport. Another would be, if you cancel a trip because you don't wish to fly under these circumstance, to write to the governor of the state where you would have been spending money on motels, restaurants, shops, museums and explain why you won't be coming.

Saying some people "have to fly" is simply wrong. They choose to do so, whether for work, pleasure, or family. It is a choice, though. Of course there is the option to not go to Europe, or anywhere else for that matter! I know hundreds of people who don't travel abroad. The tradeoff may not be worth it (having to change jobs or whatever) but you always the option of not doing something. The fact that you don't like the consequences doesn't mean you don't have the choice.

what kind of doctor are you? you make no sense!

AzDryHeat,

Good question.

Oh you can always move to a different country if you'd rather have security than freedom lady. If you're willing to give up freedom for security you deserve neither.

As far as flying 'travel time' The last three times I flew the delays, broken planes, layovers etc.. made the trip take twice as long as the drive would have. (I've driven it before) So I see no point in flying anywhere that's not over an ocean. If it was over an ocean I'd sooner drive to Canada and take a plane from a country that isn't full of an agency that is "Defending us by ignoring the basic foundation of our country onTOP of doing it without a lick of respect for the citizens of it.'

I hope the whole airline industry collapses. Maybe they can cry to the government for a bailout. PERHAPS ontop of the asinine and seemingly bogus security they could use some money to fix the mostly 40-50 year old fleet of planes they run. If it's not a terrorist, or an idiot guard that gets you then the quality of equipment of an already cash strapped industry is an issue for me.

You can drive to Canada and then book a flight. Then you can be patted down by a Canadian. There is no country you can fly into or out of without security checks. Sorry.

Your point? I never said you don't have to fly...I said this would be a good time to make another choice if you can, to prove a point. Whereas you would love to make us afraid to use any form of mass transportation. The terrorists would love that statement --"Just because nothing has happened, yet, in this country..." I repeat -- WHAT are you so afraid of? You can only die once. And you will eventually, even if you hole up in a little room with a computer and never step outside. I will not live in fear. Let me restate that -- I love this country, and I will not live in fear.

There is also the question of the value of time. Work out how long it would take to fly from LA to Seattle for example and compare it with how long it would take to drive or go by train (what train?). In theory it should take relatively little difference if we were to be allowed to drive at a sensible speed for the conditions but we are hamstrung by speed limits to preovide a revenue stream for the law enforcers. We could if we had a decent rail system. The extra travel time would be off-set by the ludicrously long periods we have to wait at airports checking in, commuting to and from town, and waiting for the plane to take off and land. That eats up several hours and we still have to pay taxis or bus fares to get to and from airports. What I am saying is that in fact from the viewpoint of time alone, alternatives to flying does make sense for some routes. In other cases there is no other viable option - and most of the problems appear to happen on international long-haul routes, don't they? Living in a bubble of fear is downright silly as ornerydem says.

Plus, how the heck would someone get from America to Europe without flying?

@andrew

boat? ...um..swimming....teleportation.

if there is a will there's a way

seriously though "Living in a bubble of fear is downright silly"

heck there's more chances of me dying driving on highways then from a terrorist bomb.

but oops..its not about our safety is it? no thats not the issue here

Andrew, There are yachts, cruise ships.

Please explain why travelers in Muslim dreee, especially women, are exempt form body scans and/or pat-downs?

Disgruntled and very upset traveler.

Richard, they are NOT exempt from security checks. They have the same scans etc that everyone else does.

I wish the stupid president would quit using we in this, he even said even though I don't have to go through this, because he flies on his own jet!!!!

Please enroll in a basic English class before it's too late.

It's not his jet, amy, it's the taxpayer's jet. He is only allowed to use it or, in his case, abuse it.

Amy, even by the standards of this comedic community, that is funny

"Concentration camps frustrating but necessary." (satire)