I picked a fine day to stop sniffing glue

Lion Air's slogan "We make you fly"; should be changed to "We fly you high!"

With background music playing..."Shabu-shabu shanananananananna shabu shabu."

Because of the "truth in advertising" laws the airline has changed it's name to "Tweaker Air".

Seems like a pilot could afford better drugs.....Meth......really!!!!.....WTF?????

I live in the Great Valley of California which is the Meth capital of the universe. It is quite possibly the worst drug ever invented, (I think the Germans and the Japanese were instrumental in the chemistry of the drug....made for fierce and crazy military forces).

not new every country's armed forces know of its benefits.

not new every country's armed forces know of its benefits.

Lisa

the pilot could work more efficiently and better while under the influence of meth than alcohol. He probably got things done so fast his boss had to check to see if he was using it.

LOl I know. It's was just a smart arse comment because so many of our US pilots have been busted over the years.

I hope you were simply making an observation rather than suggesting locking someone up for 10 yrs or more for possessing a small amount drugs is a good thing, because it's not a good thing....it's primitive and medieval. Penalties should be determined by the drug (weed, no penalty, heroin, somewhat harsher), the amount, the circumstances (simply using or selling, on the job or not). Instead, these backwards bureaucrats who have yet to emerge from the 16th century make no distinction between these factors, mindlessly incarcerating people for long periods of time for posessing relatively harmless substances. (The guy had .04 grams of meth on him? Call friggin' 60 Minutes!)

Yeah, found it interesting that they immediately responded by instituting drug and alcohol testing before any pilot gets on a plane. I guess you have to give them credit for discovering a problem and quickly putting a stop to it.

I don't know all the effects of the drug, but I can't imagine anyone wanting to fly a plane under the influence of anything. I think it is supposed to increase alertness and maybe would be an aid to a very tired pilot. I have heard that forms of it has been used by the military unofficially on long mission flights and endless combat missions. But still, I don't see it being used in commercial flying situations as being beneficial. I'd much rather see a well rested flight crew being at their peak naturally rather than by drug stimulation.

@ KC...I wasn't making a observation...what I said is a fact for the penalty in 'Indonesia'.

Google it ;)

Mike, I don't doubt the penalty you cited is accurate, and I wasn't suggesting that an observation is a guess....more often than not, an observation is factual, because it is assumed it is based on something observed, be it live and in person, or observed in reliable information online. My point was, were you just stating an example of the harshness of drug laws in Indonesia, or were you agreeing that these penalties are reasonable?

KC

Mike, I don't doubt the penalty you cited is accurate,

Perhaps you should have followed Mikes advice and googled before you responded about the accuracy? Follow the link and save the search then comment. Meth would fall under group 1 drugs.

NewDay...I'm all for testing pilots for alcohol before flying, probably because it's one of the most debilitating substances known to man. But testing for all drugs just because one guy tested positive for meth (which could have been a minute amount, just as the amount he was carrying) is a kneejerk reaction, in part for the reasons you mentioned. Small amounts of meth absolutely do increase alertness and would keep a pilot from dosing without a doubt. And you are absolutely right that military pilots consume uppers like candy for long missions and to stay alert in the heat of battle. Also, traces of some drugs, like marijuana, can linger in your system for a month or so....should a pilot who smoked some weed a few weeks ago be fired, and possibly jailed for years? I think not.
As for flying under the influence of anything, what about the pilot flying under the influence of the breakup of a 30 yr marriage? Or the pilot flying under the influence of his pension being cut to next to nothing, or not being able to help his kids with college because his salary has been decimated over the past 10 yrs because a relatively few loud liars have convinced the masses that unions are evil and so-called right-to-work states are a good thing? News flash for all you nit wits who voted to be a right to work state. What you essentially voted for, was to ban collective bargaining from your state, thereby guaranteeing lower wages, little or no health benefits or company retirement contributions, not to mention arbitrary hiring and firing practices by management that doesn't give a f*ck about your wages and whether or not you have a job. But hey, you now live in a "right-to-work" state because you were flim-flammed with lots of baloney that you readily sucked up. But I digress...quite a bit. Hopefully you get the gist of my point, which is a pilot, or anyone for that matter, can be unduly influenced, and ultimately distracted, by circumstances other than the intake of drugs.

KC

Nice attempt to change the focus of the topic. Save it for the thread on right to work ok?

As to testing for drugs that last in the system for days, weeks.... or months in a hair test, The FAA has specific guidelines on what drugs are allowed and which are NOT. That list goes beyond just the "recreational" stuff but covers MANY prescription and over the counter drugs with limitations and BANS. I don't think they just made a list for shts and grins. Those drugs IMPAIR a pilots ability to do their job, both short and long term. Impair does not have to mean mind altering.. reducing the ability to transport oxygen to the brain and vital organs, impair vision, increase reaction time. Now go smoke your junk before you get to your union protected job and I hope you don't leave parts of yourself or a coworker in the product when you come home the next day. (please note I am in favor of unions to a degree but you have to admit both sides are a little nuts)

t_v, I'll try to keep my right to work propaganda in more appropriate threads, rather than "attempt to change the focus of the topic". I haven't smoked "junk" for years (if you consider weed junk, then alcohol must be something far worse than junk), and I don't work a "protected" union job. Seems you have bought into the baloney spewed about weed and unions, although it's good to hear that you favor unions to a "degree". Which degree do you oppose t_v.....lower wages, no health care or benefits to speak of, like a few paid holidays, maybe even some vacation time, or possibly arbitrary work rules where management can tell you what the fck you'll do, when you'll do it and for how long you'll do it? One of those degrees? How is it nuts to want better working conditions through collective bargaining? Ever wonder why everything at Wal Mart is so cheap?
Regarding FAA drug rules, I wasn't suggesting that it should be ok to fly right after smoking "junk", I said trace amounts from weeks ago shouldn't necessarily preclude one from flying. As for all the drugs they ban, illicit, prescription or OTC, some may not have been banned for shts and grins, but some were quite arbitrarily banned with no scientific evidence that they would impede one's ability to fly. This rule may have been eased recently, but no anti-depression drugs or any for temporary mental health remediation was banned outright, which is somewhat of a blanket, knee jerk ban.

My objections to unions are the overly protective nature on "senior" members when they should be outright fired for being so blatantly in violation of common sense and disregard for fellow workers and their own safety. But again lets debate that in another thread.

Sorry for the cheap shot on the smoking your junk... just misread between the lines. The presumption of drugs showing up on a test days, weeks, months later is that if one used it before they will use it again. Alcohol is just as bad or worse as any other drug and airlines are really working on finding ways to rid themselves of flight crew who repeatedly test positive for alcohol. (ok back to unions... they would like to send the offender to "rehab"). Most if not all chemicals (drugs/weeds all impact people with chemicals) have long term impact and IMPAIR ones abilities.

I'm not sure of the timing on FAA vs anti-depressants. I am aware that some drugs short term prevent a pilot from legally being Pilot in Command. Under DR supervision the Pilot can be evaluated after one year of Rx use and cleared to be PIC. Now of course that would require being able to stay on as an ATP at some company for a year without flying or going to the bottom of the ladder and starting the seniority thing from scratch.

As to what drugs were banned ... I am quite sure that everything on the DEA list went directly to the NO FLY list at the FAA. The FAA area of expertise is SUPPOSED to be flying not drugs so they would rely on a "reliable" trusted source which would be the government agency who is supposed to be the expert and that would be FDA and DEA. Just ask those with CDL about that list and you will find they are 99.99999% if not 100% identical.

To answer your question, meth stays in your system a long time. You do some at noon and you will still be feeling it at 9PM. It also messes with your head and you will focus on odd things. Meth is a very dangerous drug. I had friends who got on it and sleep deprivation will cause you to hear things(like voices coming out of the drain)and make you terribly paranoid of anybody. My friend showed up at my apartment with a .22 pistol because people were following him from the roof tops. That's what he believed.

GoofyTigre

Meth stays in your system for a MINIMUM of three days. The problem that pilot had was if he had not gotten arrested, the amount he did have would not be enough to keep him awake for the entire flight. When a meth user comes down, they come down hard. I have witnessed it myself and it is crazy. If he were a regular user he would have been jerking and twitching, I have witnessed legs moving around and so on. This is not to say everybody acts the same way on that s4!t, but I would not want to play those odds if I were on that flight!

Thanks for the info Jim and Robert.

I was not insinuating that I condone his use or the fact that he used before work. I would not want to be on his flight. It was just strange to me that this article even exists and the guy wasn't even on the job yet. I see now that the drug lasts a lot longer than I previously thought and he was a danger even though he was not working.

GoofyTigre, several years ago I saw a documentary on Adolph Hitler. He would be exhausted and completely wore out then his doctors would give him some "medicine" that would perk right up. He had amazing energy after his medicine. Yeah, they were giving Hitler meth, and knowing how it affects you, he was insane because of other issues besides just being psyco from the start. Jim is 100% right about coming down hard off of meth. You have been awake for two to three days but you won't sleep because it is still in you. You're just kind of walking dead.

Robert Duckworth

It goes even deeper than that! Everybody has heard of the Blitzkrieg...the soldiers were being fed Crystal Meth. From my understanding, the drinking water was being doused with speed and when the soldiers got to far ahead of the supply line or were cut-off, the Blitzkrieg became the @!$%#zkrieg and the soldiers who were accustomed to being wired suddenly were not quite as ready to fight day and night. If you ever see film of Hitler, watch his hand. Sometimes his hand would shake like he had Parkinson's, which he did not. Really, nasty, stuff!!!

And FDR frequently used cocaine... under a DR care but no different than Hitler (as far as using an illicit drug) Fighter jocks often take some form of upper under DR directive during combat operations. Good or bad guy it is unfortunately more common than the average citizen would suspect.

Jim, I'll tell you what I learned when I lived in San Francisco. You can have friends, but once you start doing stuff like meth or heroin, they are no longer your friends. They are the guys you do heavy drugs with. If they aren't holding...you're not interested in being with them. I was around that some but one time they dumped out some and asked me if I wanted some. I said no, I have to go to work tomorrow. THEY COULD NOT BELIEVE I SAID NO. A gang of meth dealers can take over an apartment building. If most of the place is doing it, you are too afraid to do anything about it. These guys have guns. My experience was over twenty years ago. It sounds like fun when you're a kid, but, you get busted(or worse, die)your life is branded.

LOL The airline is like the dog owner loudly scolding his dog for pooping on the neighbor's yard while whispering good dog, good doggie.

LOL, good one Mike757

On the bright side, they got him before he got on the plane and not after.

Why?

I'd like to see you fly planes at 3am without some form of 'help'. Btw you should move to Iran/singapore or some other Sharia law country. You'd fit right in with all the freedom haters. You'd probably think somebody should be locked up or killed for enjoying a joint with dinner instead of wine.

CapNChronic,

I'd like to see you fly planes at 3am without some form of 'help'.

Are you out of your mind? You mean to tell me you cannot drive a car, ride a bike or take your tricycle for a spin after dark without a line of crank? That is pathetic. You are the use of a nasty drug because you can't get to bed on time? That is pathetic!

Why not execute drunks and fat people too? They are offensive to me and cause far more problems than drug users...

Ofc I don't mean taking meth. Personally it would just be coffee or something. However I do understand why a nightshift pilot who has to work ungodly hours might get into the stuff. I worked a graveyard shift for like 2 months and quit cause it was ruining my life. It's completely against the natural cycle that your body is programed for. Even if you can get sleep you'll still feel screwed up in the head and out of sync with the world.

Hey Cap, not everyone runs on daylight. I did the overnight shift for ten years and loved it. Coffee was our drug of choice.

But meth no way, I would not want to rely on a meth head for anything, especially not my safety.

I agree, execute all drug users, starting with the caffeine heads, tobacco junkies, and those low-life social alcohol drinkers. Maybe just life sentences for Tylenol poppers.

Add people with bad breath, foot odor and BO to the execution list. Purity for all!!

Drug and alchohol test for pilots should be mandatory globally.

Denver so EVERY driver should pee in a bottle and use a breathalyzer to start their vehicle? The RANDOM tests are mandatory in most US airlines. Testing COSTS money and time and TRUST. How would you feel about providing a sample every day before you started work.. oh and were off the clock while providing and awaiting the test results? Oh and don't forget they could wait until after the test to take the drugs... if you know WHEN you will be tested and HOW you can generally find a way around things.

politiiations?

Bee's

What? lol Someone's on meth.

jim... would that be fermented honey aka mead?

nope not until he "CRASHED"

Your comment is halarious. On a more seroius note. obviously his addiction problem over powers his common sense. I think that drug testing before flights are needed at this time. He put all of the passengers in danger. What drug user do you know is totally reasonable and clear thinking ?

Carl

Pilots have hundreds of lives in their hands. With this responsibility they should be held to Higher standards and have stiffer punishments.

They are held to higher standards. ZERO tolerance, lower BAC levels and LOSS of license, even if the incident was not on the job... i.e. if a pilot has any form of drug or alcohol related offense, including drunk and disorderly, their certificate can be suspended or revoked. Is that a high enough standard and severe enough penalty?

too funny

haha! Thanks for the laugh!

lilian101 This is all great and fine but do you know the difference between ephedrine base dope (methamphetamine) and the cross-tops the pilots were given. I would compare it like the difference between Beer and moonshine.